Today’s guest is a great example of how to keep rheumatoid arthritis symptoms under control with no medications, thanks to the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid arthritis.

We discuss in this interview:

• How Trish got diagnosed with RA with severe symptoms
• Her experience with Plaquenil
• Her first experiments with low inflammation diets
• How she came to discover the Paddison Program and got great results with it
• The food reintroduction guide
• The role of exercise in recovering
• The importance of a supportive family
• Partaking in social rituals without harmful foods or drinks
• Keeping finger joints healthy

Clint – Isn’t it awesome to hear recovery stories of rheumatoid arthritis? We keep sharing them on this channel because I know you love them. They’re the things that everyone always gives us feedback on, and I love sharing them as well. We’re a community of people who are focused on health. And today’s guest has done an amazing job in turning around symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis. Today she is on no medication, she has her symptoms under control. She’s an amazing, positive person and she’s here to share her story. And she’s from New Zealand, her name is Trish. And with that, let’s welcome Trish.

Trish – Good morning Clint. Really, really good. Thank you.

Clint – Well, wonderful to have you. I know as much about you as what I’ve basically given in the introduction, other than you’ve got a transformational story to share with us. So before we get into the details, can you give us a before and after situation where, like, at your worst, you were like this, and now today, you are like this? Just a quick one before we get into the details.

Trish – Sure. Thanks, Clint. It’s quite emotional for me, thinking back to, um, when I was first diagnosed, which was in 2016. I’d always been really fit and active, used to be a runner, and I had then become a walker, spin classes at the gym, um, you know, a real gym bunny, very, very fit. And then I started getting, uh, probably, I know now classic symptoms, but my left thumb was starting to just get a little bit sore on the joint, and I thought, oh, that’s strange, I must have done something at the gym. Then I was training and running quite a few half marathons at the time, and I noticed that I was just starting to get a bit of stiffness around my knees and I thought, oh look, just a runners thing. And so I did more stretching, then I noticed at the gym that I was starting to get pain where I had never had pain before. And then it just gradually became worse. And I had got to the stage where I actually couldn’t lift my arms above my head, which was really awful. So yeah, a lot of pain. And I thought, oh damn, it feels like I must have some arthritis in my joints. And, you know, my parents had had a bit of arthritis, nothing sort of major. And I thought, oh, look, it’s probably just that stage of life.

Trish – So I went to my GP and um, I said, it sounds like arthritis. And she looked at me and she said, yep. In fact, I think it’s possibly rheumatoid arthritis. Well, I knew nothing about any difference between osteo or rheumatoid. And I went, oh, yep. Um, so I’m, you know, I’m sure that there are some drugs that you can take and suddenly, you know, afterwards, when I remember seeing the look on her face, she was like, yep, there are. Which was probably a little hint, you know, that it wasn’t going to be a great journey for me. Anyway, she’s a lovely, very supportive GP, she referred me to a rheumatologist who was just lovely. But by that stage I was just in a huge amount of pain. And I just jotted down a note before, because it’s quite traumatic for me to even remember this. At my worst, to be able to hop into bed at night time so I could sleep and even turn over I would have a hot shower before I went to bed. And then I would rub myself with, um, a wonderful product that my family and I have always used. It’s a natural one called anti flam, and I would just bathe myself in that from head to toe. I actually can’t cope with the smell of it now because of the the trauma trigger, but that was the only way I could, you know, hop into bed and turn over.

Trish – So, the rheumatologist was lovely. And I remember when, you know, he sent me for blood tests and my rheumatoid factor was through the roof. It was probably quite good at that stage to at least find out that it was something because, um, I was incredibly unwell all over and had no idea, really, that something that was called arthritis could make you feel so unwell. Everywhere I had, like, my ribs, um, everywhere I had bones and a joint was just incredibly painful. I think I had a cough, um, yeah. Sort of mucus, my throat, just everything really, really unwell. Um, anyway, he said to me, look, I am an optimist. And he said, there are a couple of different drugs. I’m going to start you on the lesser one which was Plaquenil. And um, he said, look, here’s some information for you to go and have a read, and he referred me to a website so I could read about the different drugs. But as I walked out of the office that day, I remember saying to my husband, well, that is it, I am not going on these drugs for the rest of my life, so I’m just going to do some research. I was very thankful for the drug at that stage because it definitely made me start to feel better. And the rheumatologist actually rang me at home. He was such a lovely guy. Um, I don’t know, maybe 3 or 4 weeks later. Rang me one evening just to see how I was doing. And I said, actually, I’m starting to feel, you know, a not great but a little bit better. And he was really surprised, um, because I think he thought that by that stage I would be feeling even worse and he would possibly have to put me on to methotrexate anyway. He said, oh, that that’s really good. So I went to see him on a reasonably regular basis at that stage. But my husband was incredibly supportive and we just did a lot of research. And, um, yeah, I just I knew that food had to have an impact.

Trish – So, um, started finding things that, that and I can’t remember where. But, you know, there was such conflicting information from a lot of the, uh, more traditional medical profession, which was like, you know, yeah, you can try, but it’s probably not going to, you know, do too much. Two things that I read, which were if you eliminate these things, it will make a difference. So I had a couple of other family members, one who has, um, got lupus, one of my husband’s nephews, um, daughters, um, who lives in Perth, actually. And we went over to follow our daughter who lives in Sydney, who was doing the Ironman there. And when we stayed with our nephew and his wife shared with me, um, some recipe books that she uses. And so it started opening up this whole other world to me, that there were things that had a big impact on inflammation and reducing inflammation. So I’m the type of person that’s pretty much all or nothing. So it was like, okay, if I’m going to do this, I’m going to chuck everything at it. So, um, I’ve always been a big coffee girl, but it was starting to make me had been making me feel sick for a while. When I look back, I can see that this was sitting there waiting to, you know, really flare. And there was some stress that I was going through at that particular time in my life. Um, not family-oriented, other, just life stuff. And I think that that was the trigger that sort of took me over. Anyway, I gave up coffee, I gave up wine, which was, you know, something I’ve always enjoyed, especially on a Friday night. That first mouthful of wine. I gave up sugar, I gave up grains, and I found that, actually it was starting to really make a difference. I was still on the Plaquenil, but, um, I was starting to feel significantly better. Then we went, um, the following year, so that must have been, um, yeah, about 18 months, just under 18 months after I’d been diagnosed over to the Netherlands where one of our sons was living. And, um, while I was there, I, you know, still maintained the, um, as you know, it’s always harder when you’re traveling, but still maintained the as much as I could, um, the program, I guess that I was eating and the family were really supportive, um, and my rheumatologist was gradually, um, sort of reducing. I think when I first started, I was probably taking and, you know, from memory maybe two a day and I got down to one and a half, um, and then I was feeling so good, I took myself off, I think, while I was away, down to one. When we came back, I took myself down to a half a day and then went to see the rheumatologist and told him and said, look, I’m feeling really good. I’m only taking, you know, a half a tablet a day. And I remember him holding my hands and looking at my, um, hands and, you know, checking the joints and he went, well, it’s probably not even doing anything. So why don’t you just stop? I mean. Okay. And, um, then, you know, after consultation, he just said, well, I just I really hope I don’t in the nicest possible way. Um, have to see you again. And I’ve. And I’ve never been back. Um. Yeah.

Trish – So I’ve had a couple of flares, though I love how you call them reactions. Um, and both Christmases. So last Christmas and this Christmas, when I know because I feel good, I start to push the boundaries and, um, you know, out for meals that we probably don’t normally do. And, um, you know, into the, the Christmas goodies, not over the top, but definitely enough so that I get this reminder. This Christmas, I got, um, yeah, quite significant pain in my hands and in my wrists again, and it’s always such a shock when it happens. It’s like, oh my God, I’ve forgotten what pain feels like so that gave me a wake-up, and I, um, have bought a juicer. I’m on to the, um. Quinoa and, um, buckwheat and veggies. So I’ve just gone right back to the basics again. And honestly, and I hear people say this on your podcast too, within a couple of days, you know, I can feel the pain and the inflammation start to go down. So I’m, I’m feeling just so blessed and so grateful. And, um, I love listening to your podcasts. I think the word that you mentioned before is community, you know, because it can be a bit of a, um, a lonely condition, can’t it? And people say to me, as I’ve heard people that you’ve interviewed say, I don’t know how you do that. I don’t know how you, you know, just gave up those things. And it’s like, well, two choices, you either keep doing that and you live in pain, or you do this and you get rid of the pain, it’s a no brainer. I don’t run anymore, but I’m very fit and active. I’m a walker, I’m a hill climber where we live in Wellington or Lower Hutt, actually, we’ve got lots of hills up behind us. We’ve got a set of 100 steps that I do, um, 15 circuits of on most days. I get way more sleep than I ever used to. I manage my food, but I can say I probably enjoy my food more than I ever have in my life now because it tastes so good and it’s my medicine. So that’s my little potted story.

Clint – Yeah. Amazing. Um, congratulations. First of all, that’s not the typical story with rheumatoid arthritis. There’s a couple of gaps we need to fill in. So thank you for a wonderful recollection of everything that’s happened so far. You started out saying that you were doing your own thing, but in the minute or two before we hit recording, you said that when you joined our program, you were also then able to make a lot of changes and subtle changes to what you’re doing. So. And earlier on, you mentioned you’d dropped grains and, uh, want to make sure that folks who are new to what we do and our program and what the science says also understand that grains do play a role specifically in longevity, gut health and so on. And that there’s this distinction between pseudo grains, which are the buckwheat and quinoa, which are just seeds, really, and traditional grains, when we think of those like wheat and wheat and oats and barley and stuff. So tell us how the Paddison Program came into the mix. And also then after that, I’ll remind you to also talk about what your current diet looks like, and if you’re able to eat those other grains.

Trish – So came into the mix, uh, I think the Christmas before last when and I’m sure it’s no coincidence that I have had flares around both Christmases when I was, you know, sort of pushing the boundaries. And, um, the big thing that I had discovered from you, Clint, and that, uh, God, I’m so grateful for is oil. That was a huge life changer for me and a big aha and insight that I would never have imagined. You know, as always so much sort of recommendation. And I always say, look, for most people it’s fine if you’ve got rheumatoid, it’s not. So most people sort of promote using olive oil and how good oils are for them. And when I read, um, about your research and your experience around oil, it was like, oh my goodness, I wish I had known that earlier. So, no oil whatsoever. Don’t miss it, do all my veggies just with a bit of water. Uh, we bought an air fryer. I mean, I remember, um, seeing one of your posts, I think about how transformational that had been for you to be able to, you know, do sweet potato chips or whatever. So we’ve got an air fryer. Um, so that that was a biggie.

Trish – Other things like they’ve become such a normal part of my life now. I think the, the combo, the, um, buckwheat and the quinoa combo that was a really big life changer for me, because I love bread and those sorts of things. So to find something that I don’t know just has a nutty, um, satisfying. And it’s got, you know, it’s protein. So that’s that’s something that I have, um, learned from you that I really, really enjoy. And the other thing too, so I’m really interested to hear, because I’m at the stage now of being able to expand from the base again. And I know that you talk about having oats for breakfast, so that’s something that I’m keen to start because when I first made all the major changes to my food. I’ve always been girl, but I just I got rid of all of that stuff, so now I’m keen to just see what I can introduce and I know that, um. Yeah, that you’re a big proponent of oats for breakfast, so I think that’s probably my next my next step.

Clint – Awesome. So what we want to get to is to be able to hit some key foods that are reintroduced through the reintroduction guide. And the reintroduction guide, which has been updated December 23rd, now has bolded items throughout it to show you that not only are there a sequence of foods that you want to go through in numbered order, but also bolded food items that are specifically research based foods that support some part of this journey. Now, most of the time it’s related to health for the gut. So oats are a source of beta glucans, which are not necessarily easy to obtain through other food sources in the program. They’re in that cereal grain, and when you eat that food, it can offer a food source to certain types of microbes that can therefore in return provide great benefits for producing short chain fatty acids which help heal the gut. And then there are other foods that we want to hit that are bolded, like things like, fermented foods like miso and then later, fermented vegetables, and bananas for resistant starch and etc., etc.. So we definitely want to move through the reintroduction phase without getting stuck too much towards the start of it, because we ultimately are looking for diversity. We want diversity in our meals, which translates to diversity in the gut. And so it’s this balance between wanting to go for diversity as quick as possible, to also wanting to stay slowly moving through those early stages, because it’s at that point where we do the most inflammation reduction. And so we gradually introduce more foods, therefore adding more diversity of fiber. And simultaneously we are keeping inflammation at a very low level because of the elongated time at which we’ve been eating the predominantly simpler foods.

Clint – Okay. And so if we do it right, we only need to do it once, and we get to a point where we end up eating like our family. I eat everything from Mexican to Italian to Japanese foods, uh, heaps of Indian foods. And people can eat at our home and enjoy the foods we can eat at restaurants and enjoy the food. So we want to get to that point, but it just we just need to go through it, that sequence. So try and hit oats for breakfast, micro dose them if needed. Just a tablespoon of oats alongside your existing meals. And gradually you’ll build tolerance to these foods, which aren’t controversial in their benefits. They’re not bad for RA for some people, good for RA for other people. These are foods that are good for human health, great for the gut microbiome. And so if you can’t eat them at this point, it’s just a reflection of your gut being dysbiotic not a reflection that some people should or shouldn’t eat that food. It’s then the dosage dependent introduction that matters. So I know this is your interview, but that’s the next stage for you to go through, work through the reintroductions, and get to a point where you can become more resilient. So when you are at Christmas time, you’re not as worried about making a misstep because you know that you’ve got so much diversity in the microbiome that whatever you throw at it, you’ve got bacteria to break those fibers down.

Trish – Thank you.

Clint – So your exercise sounds like it’s played a huge role. And I think coming into the diagnosis that your past experience with high level physical activity helped you also not to fall deep into the trench of RA, but you were you kind of didn’t go as deep as some. And then you hit it with a Plaquenil early. But you immediately changed your diet and made some discoveries on your own before doing the Paddison Program. And then, you’re able to leverage your past fitness that has helped you a lot. Would you agree?

Trish – Absolutely. And another experience that I think I tend to block out was, um, when I was at the, the height, you know, of my, um, pain that, um, my husband and I went for a walk, like, around the block. And this was going from being able to run half marathons. And then we walked down the street, we got, I don’t know, a few hundred meters up the road. And, um, and I was just in so much pain. I said to my, you know, we have to go home. So I couldn’t even walk around the block, you know, it was my feet, everything. You know what it’s like. Um, and to have something that mostly you just take for granted, uh, all of a sudden, you know, every step. My toes, my feet, my knee, everything, everything was just so painful. I remember coming home and hopping into probably having a hot shower, covering myself with anti phlegm and hopping into bed and just thinking, oh my goodness, I um yeah, I don’t know how, um, how this happened and how I’m going to get through this.

Clint – How is it now when you wake up on a typical day? What’s it like getting out of bed as Trish? Uh, now, here we are. We’re early 2024 as we’re recording this. What’s it feel like getting out of bed now?

Trish – Yeah, that’s just, um. I think I’m still grateful every day when I hop out of bed and, you know, there’s always that little second of, um, how do I feel? And it’s like, takes, I don’t know, a couple of seconds to just think, oh, yeah. No, I feel just normal. And then into my day, we we run our own business. So, um, you know, we have a, uh, here, a really busy, busy life. We’ve got three now, adult children, um, two little granddaughters, and they all live in different places. So, um, yeah, we’re very, active. And um, so being able to participate in all of those things is still something that I just appreciate every day.

Clint – Lovely. Okay, so what about your support of your husband? Sounds like he was particularly influential. Was he preparing meals for you? I mean, in what way did he help you?

Trish – He was amazing. So, um. Alana, that’s my husband. He really enjoys his food, so he’s a meat eater, and he enjoys his wine, but, my goodness, he has just fallen over backwards. When I first started on this, um, I, we decided to that I would go, um, organic as much as possible. And we’ve got a lovely organic store not far from us. So I think he was one of their best customers for a while. He would go and buy all of the, the veggies and, um, and then to start with, um, yeah, he was also doing most of the cooking as well. Um, so he would cook, you know, whatever I was having now, I cook my own food, he cooks his own food, and we both sit down together and have, um, a very lovely meal together. And, you know, as often happens with these, um, sort of not good things that happen in your life, so many good things come out of it. And we now have just, just this lovely ritual, um, of sitting down together in the evening, him with whatever he’s eating me with, you know, my copious amounts of veggies and whatever I’m eating. And we, we just sit at the table and just really enjoy each other’s company and enjoy our food and know that it’s just, um, good for us.

Trish – And I can still, I mean, I, I grew up in New Zealand, so we grew up on, you know, like probably like you, Clinton, lamb and meat. Um, I still love the smell of lamb cooking in the house. You know, all of the things that I don’t eat or drink anymore. I still really like the smell of coffee, I adore. But I’m absolutely fine with not having those myself. But I really enjoy other people around me eating all of that. And it was one of the most interesting things that we discovered not drinking. Why no alcohol anymore? I found it really hard to start with. Not so much because of the, um, I suppose the, the buzz. But we discovered eventually it was around ritual. So, um, now if we’ve got people around or if we go out somewhere, I’ll have my water, um, in a wine glass. So, um, it’s about feeling connected and part of the community that you’re with. I think that’s been one of the big things that we’ve, um, that we’ve discovered, you know, that rituals are so important to us as human beings. So being able to partake in the ritual still, even if it’s what I’m drinking, is different from everybody else, you know, that’s just fine. And he’s always got me to drive him. So he’s always got a sober driver.

Clint – That’s good, that’s good. We get some people who are worried about their challenges with cravings. And as you said, you’ve had to let go of some things that you previously loved. What goes through your mind to not have to cave into cravings, whether it be the smell of foods that you enjoy, that you don’t eat or and so on. Can you give us some tips for people around cravings? How do you get past that?

Trish – Look, I heard I follow you religiously, so I love your little daily. I just watched one this morning, actually, and they are so good just those little daily tips and reminders. Honestly, that is just one of the best things. Um, and I think you were interviewing somebody, I listened to your pods while I’m out or your podcast while I’m out on my walks. And you interviewed somebody a few weeks ago, and, um, I’m not sure whether it was you who said it or she who said it, but it was. The tip was, don’t let yourself get hungry, because when you when you’re really hungry, then the temptation is to, um, you know, I can still open the pantry and there’s the, um, the biscuits or the, you know, the chocolate and. Yeah, there’s always that. Oh, God, I just love some of that. Um, and then I’m also, in a very strange way, thankful for the little, um, the reactions or the little flares that I get every now and then because, oh, my goodness. You forget it’s like having a baby, you forget the pain and you forget the pain of rheumatoid until you start to get a niggle of it again. It’s like, oh my God, that’s right, I’m not going there. So that those, uh um, yeah, that that’s probably my biggest, my biggest tip.

Clint – Good, I like that. Absolutely. We make bad decisions. Like there’s, I think there’s a joke or a saying or something I’ve heard in various formats where you don’t want to go into a grocery store when you’re starving. You spend twice as much on food. And the same way, we don’t want to go near the pantry also when we’re starving and we haven’t. So preparation comes into it, right? It’s just common sense and preparation and putting our body first, which is thinking about, am I going to be out of the house for four hours, uh, away from home? Because if I am, I need to pack some foods that I know I can eat if I get hungry so that I don’t end up at a fast food or some other ridiculous place. So that’s good, that’s good. And then you’re getting those little reminders if you do the wrong thing, these little alarm bells going off in the inflammation process. What advice would you give to other people who are struggling because the default position, unfortunately, is one of frustration and struggle? Even people who are taking those medications that you never had to go on, um, you know, those drugs can help, but often they don’t. What would be the Trish’s advice to someone right now if you are sitting opposite someone in pain?

Trish – Uh, look, I’d tell them to find you and sign up with you. Follow that program, because, my goodness, it works. And I think just give it a go and know that, um, it is entirely possible for from my experience, I can only talk from my experience to be able to reduce the pain through. And I know that there are the three things I’ve heard through, um, through you and, um, people that, um, you have spoken to. So it’s reduced the stress in your life, get active, for me, it’s sleep. Having more sleep than I ever have and follow that food regime. And, um, one of your little tips the other day was around discipline and that’s sometimes not something we want to have to think, oh, God, I’ve got to have a disciplined life. But actually it’s following those disciplines that give you so much freedom. Um, and yeah, so just give it a go and that there are things that we think that we probably can’t live without that actually, um, when you feel what you get, it’s just way much more. And you know, who wouldn’t want to get rid of that pain? Oh my goodness. And that shrinks your life whereas, you know, following those things and following your program expands your life and gives you freedom. Um, and I am just so, so thankful, especially in a world where the stuff is still considered to be not. I think it’s starting to come into the mainstream. But, um, you know, I still speak to people who go, oh, no, food. Food can’t have any impact on that. It’s like, oh, Goodness.

Trish – It’s a no brainer, isn’t it? What goes in?

Clint – Yeah. It’s, uh, like I’ve visited, so I’ve been to Doctor Michael Clapper’s office in Santa Rosa and sat there with him and Dr. McDougall. The three of us just sat there, and it was a surreal moment for me. I’d met Dr. Klaper a few times, but to have Dr. McDougall with us as well who I admire and hold in such high regard. And we’re sitting around and they’re between us on the desk of Doctor Klaper’s desk is a giant sign that says it’s the food. Okay, so he has it on his desk for every patient to be staring at in their consultations. And I believe Dr. McDougall has one, I suspect, as well, in his in his office. So it all begins with the food most definitely. And so to ignore that or just to be ignorant of that, I just think that that’s just unforgivable. So, um, you’ve been through setbacks I’m sure, you’ve had this long enough. You’ve said that when you’ve been at your worst, you’ve had to stop, come back to the house, and get into bed. So we know that you’ve had some very dark days with this when you’ve had setbacks. What sequence of self-talk has occurred to get through them?

Trish – Good question. I think now it’s just knowing that it won’t last forever if I do the right things. I think my first self-talk is get some rest, go back to basics with the food, and keep moving. So it’s a big self-care thing, and it’s not being selfish, it’s a condition that some of us, for whatever reason, have in our lives, and it’s completely manageable. So I think my self-talk as I’m talking to you is probably just go back to the basics. I start to get up, let’s go back to the basics, which is look at this dress, get your sleep. Keep moving and go back to the basics with the food.

Clint – I love it, I love it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, now the next question. Name your three most vulnerable joints and what helps them the most, especially if there’s anything that’s unique for them and what irritates them the most. And so by way of example, if it were the hands like, do you find that finger flicks help you a lot for those if it were the shoulders? And by the way, we haven’t asked how your shoulders are since you started talking before, I want you to talk about those. And if there’s anything that’s very unique to that joint that you find helps or hurts it, that can provide insights.

Trish – Yeah. Good questions because this is what happened over Christmas. So it’s my hands and it’s funny, and I’m sure I’ve heard you talk about this Clint. When I first started with symptoms it was in my left hand. And then as I just found out, you know, rheumatoid then likes to do things the same on both sides then it was my right hand. And what I know is that that’s the first sign. And when I ended up with symptoms all over my body, it was like an undoing, if that makes sense. So, um, my hands were then the last thing to come, right? Yeah, yeah. So it was like gradually, um, it was like a domino sort of thing that started then would go somewhere else, somewhere else, somewhere else. And then it was all over. Then when I started to get the inflammation down, it was sort of like the other way. Um, and then my hands would be the last thing. So now I know that any sign like I had over Christmas, it’s my hands. So it will be it’s often cross here on my right hand and in that joint and on my left hand, it’s, um, the wrist and this finger. So I know, first of all, I’ve just got to get the inflammation down and that takes the pain away. And then not sure, but I one thing I discovered, in fact, I was doing it over the weekend while I was out walking because this finger was just a bit stiff.

Clint – So if people are listening to this and not watching, Trish is just basically moving her fingers, basically almost like playing the piano without actually having any keys in front of her with straight fingers. So finger playing with straight fingers so that the, uh, knuckle joints are getting a lot of movement. So this falls under the same category as. 50% of the teachings that I have around fingers, um, which is just getting repetitions with very little resistance. Just lots and lots and lots and lots of movement through the joints. So you would not have a joint in that part of your body unless you needed that part of the body to move. And so it’s designed for movement, movement only. It’s not as strong, it’s not as robust as a straight bone. It’s there for movement and movement only. So move that joint a lot okay? So what you’re doing is sensational. The other part, and I’ll just, um, uh, have you consider this as well is, uh, 50% of the the finger plan, the training we have in our materials is all around strengthening grip strength because that’s associated with longer life. The weaker your grip strength, the more hospitalizations. Grip strength is associated with greater bone mineral density. So having strong hand grip strength is basically a window into the body to tell you the quality of your body, it really is. So, work on grip strength as well. And if you’re not already doing that, that can be your next breakthrough to build more resilience.

Trish – Yeah, okay.

Clint – There’s a whole new training around fingers that is being uploaded to your member’s area this week, so I’ll email all about that. So there’s like a seven-step video series on step by step how to improve your hands with I’m demonstrating at all. So the movements through the fingers, sensational. So you’re already doing like half of it, but there’s another half of wonderful opportunity there as well.

Trish – Cool. Thank you.

Clint – Yeah. Awesome. Well, this has been interesting. Thanks so much Trish. Is there anything that you would like to share as well? Other things that you think are imperative for people to know that you do that really helps as well, or a message that you’d like to share, anything like that?

Trish – It sounds really strange, but I have honestly come to see this very strange and potentially debilitating condition that is manageable. I see it now in my life as actually as a gift, um, because I’ve learned so much about myself. Um, it’s something that is here forever, so it makes me very mindful. I think my health is probably better now than it, you know, than maybe it it sounds weird, doesn’t it? But maybe it ever was, because, um, what I do, what I practice, what I eat, um, is like best in world practice. Um, and I get to meet somebody like you, Clint, and I know I’ve said it just so many times, just thank you so much. I don’t know what we would do without you, because you have got lived experience of this. And everything you share with us is tried and true. So I just I trust you and what you do, and being part of a community is just so powerful and important. So that that’s probably my main message. Is that it’s something we can take and make for us and in some way.

Clint – Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you Trish. I posted something like that in one of those short videos that you were mentioning earlier, and someone commented underneath that they’ve made RA their superpower. Because I pointed out that rheumatoid is the ultimate disciplined stick, because if you don’t exercise, if you don’t eat perfectly, if you don’t watch out for healthy sleep, if you don’t manage your stress to reduce interpersonal stresses and overdoing it at work. If you aren’t focused on all of these things and getting out into nature and getting exposure to the way that we evolutionarily like evolved, which is to be out in nature. If we avoid all these things and mess it all up, we’ll get whacked by the worst pain. And so I couldn’t agree more. And it just it keeps you in the lane. You cannot get out of your lane, stay in your lane. And that lane is the healthiest lane that we can run. And you got to stay there.

Trish – Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, you step outside that lane, you’ll just you’ll get a reminder.

Clint – That’s right, that’s right. Disqualification of life.

Trish – You’re out. Yeah, yeah.

Clint – And that’s it. Well, thank you so much, Trish. I’ve really enjoyed meeting you. And I’m inspired by what you’ve done. And I’m very grateful for you to share your story today. So thank you very much, guys.

Trish – Such a pleasure. Just keep on being you. And thanks for so generously sharing what you do. It honestly, it saves our lives and makes our lives a joy to live, so thank you.