Step Sinatra has been researching the power of earthing or grounding for a long time, and he explains the positive effects it can have on our health.

We discuss in this interview:

• What is grounding, what connecting to the Earth can provide us
• Oxidative stress, deficiency of electrons and rheumatoid arthritis
• How Step got heavily ill and earthing saved the situation
• Barefoot walking for inflammatory arthritis
• Blood viscosity and electric conduction
• The body as an energetic system
• Feet, fascia and meridians
• Electrons and heated fats
• Possible ways to connect to Earth and grounding devices
• Strategies to avoid magnetic fields from computers, wireless networks etc.
• Actionable tips

Clint – Today, I’ve got a very special guest who’s going to talk about all of the tremendous evidence-based benefits of grounding or earthing, which is where we get our skin in direct contact with Mother Earth. If you were to come and see my house, I also have a bunch of artificial ways, I guess, of doing this. There was a grounding sheet on my bed for a while. I intermittently have a grounding pad under my feet here in the office that’s connected to the earth socket at the power outlet. I also used to put earthing patches on my joints that were affected by rheumatoid arthritis, which were again grounded through the earthing socket. As part of our program and part of our coaching, we have everybody every day get out barefoot, walking on grass for 20 minutes. I do it almost every day. I love it, and it’s been instrumental in reversing the inflammation in my feet. I’m super excited to bring today’s guest to the podcast and his name is Step Sinatra. Now he’s the author of a book that is called, “Get Grounded, Get Well”, which he co-wrote with his father and Sharon Whiteley. He also is the co-author of a medical journal called, “Grounding – The Universal Anti-inflammatory Remedy”, which is how I discovered Step. It is because I’m always looking at the medical research on the things that we do, which we’ve found to help myself and other people with inflammatory arthritis. We’re going to go deep today on grounding everything you need to know is coming at you from Step, who’s now joining me from the Greek islands. Good day, Step.

Step – It’s excellent to be here, that’s right. We’re going to have a good deep dive. We’re going to get our feet in the grass. I’m glad you brought that up right in the beginning. That’s what people can do.

Clint – I love it! Let’s get into first of all, what is this? What does it mean? Can you give us your definition of grounding?

Step – Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s so simple. It’s just connecting with the Earth, and there’s a lot of wishy-washy woo-woo kind of stigma to that. It’s so simple and it’s so healing because basically, we found the science. The science wasn’t there, but ancient man understood this at a primordial level. We knew that we had something in touch with the Earth. What was that? It was energy, resonance, and frequency. I mean, what did Tesla say? If you want to look at the secrets, find the secrets of the universe, energy, frequency, and vibration. This is what the Earth is providing. Otto Schumann found in the 50s that there’s a resonance, which is called the Schumann resonance, which vibrates at 7.83Hz. Thus, it’s the heartbeat of the earth. As human beings, we need this frequency. This is the one frequency that kind of harmonizes everything. Let’s say I used to live in Manhattan before I moved to Greece. I used to live on the 45th floor and I didn’t know it then. But maybe that precipitated a lot of my health issues because I was so high up and disconnected from that frequency. Then, I was walking to work with rubber-soled shoes, I was disconnected. We found all this out in the past two decades and how important that is. It’s connecting with the Earth to do what one receives the Schumann frequency and number two free electrons. At the core level of everything, I’m going to debunk the entire theory. I’m going to tell you what I believe is that what we’ve been taught is a hoax, that we are all biochemical. There’s some theory to that, and that’s a Newtonian model. We’re talking about more of a quantum electric model that the fuel that we need comes in the form of electrons and we get it from food, air, water, etc. The Earth is the number one provider of electrons and we need that. However, we need skin contact with the Earth. Thus, it kind of sums it up a little bit without getting too crazy.

Clint – Yeah. You’ve touched upon some topics that we want to explore a lot more in more detail. Let me just put this now before we get into that detail, into the frame of briefly rheumatoid arthritis. However, we won’t hold there too long. I want this interview to be very broad-based, but specifically with rheumatoid arthritis. From which I can speak of the science with great confidence. We know that there is a state of oxidative stress within the body, which is a state in which there is an inadequate amount of electrons. When we have this in the outer valence shell of the makeup of our molecules. Then, we can suffer the consequences where the cells can break down, apoptosis, we lose cells. If this happens on the gut lining, we can have a leaky gut. Without going too much further, the studies are very clear that oxidative stress, again a deficiency of electrons, correlates with disease activity for rheumatoid arthritis. It extends where measures like C-reactive protein and SED rate, which are inflammatory markers in the blood. The researchers have said that we could alternatively use oxidative stress markers because they are just as indicative of disease activity as the inflammatory markers. If we can get more electrons into the body of people with RA, according to the science, are going to potentially reduce this deficiency that we have. To set us into this discussion, I’m going to have an open hook here. I want to find out first how you got into this and became so passionate, and how your family became the world leaders in this pioneering work. Then, we will go into all the action because I want to hear why you’re so into this.

Step – Yeah, okay. We got a lot there, but I was a Wall Street trader coming out of college, and that was my dream and passion. I loved it, lived in New York City and I was making a lot of money. I was doing what I loved and I was just designed to do that. Thus, my health suffered because it was such a stressful lifestyle style. Over those years I started to break down and I was in the hospital multiple times. We didn’t know what was going on, but it was just adrenal fatigue. Maybe there was some Lyme disease in there, who knows? Right, a lot of other factors. At the kind of the same time my father meets, Clint Ober at a medical conference. Yeah, you’re also a Clint. Clint Ober, meanwhile, has been out there talking about earthing and getting no traction. The medical community is laughing at him. He’s not getting any medical substance that he can grasp onto, and kind of market this and sell this to the world. My father came along and he immediately got it because he was a cardiologist and he understood inflammation, and he was one of the guys in the beginning. In the early 2000s, coming out and said, that most modern disease is the result of oxidative stress. The free radical theory of aging, and excessive inflammation is not being addressed or dissipated.

Step – Now, we know that a lot of that inflammation is a lack of electrons or electrons, not going to where they should be going because of a conduction issue. We can get into this later. I believe the body is a semiconductor and it gets blocked. So my father and Clint meet at a great conference. They hit it off and they’re both kind of cowboys wearing cowboy boots. They also have a rapport, and they team up and write this book, Earthing the Greatest Discovery of All Time which came out around 2010. At that point, they had already had multiple studies. They’d conducted multiple research projects to validate that earthing was working. It was putting out the fire of inflammation. It was thinning the blood and it was increasing zeta potential. The charge of the cells was spaced apart. Your blood was flowing better like red wine, which is critical for an inflammatory situation. So to speed this up, those two write the book. The book takes off and here we are over 14 years later. This movement has just been slowly progressing over that time. Now for me, I’ll rewind. I was incredibly sick at 27 years old. I mean, just completely with losing weight for five years, I couldn’t gain weight. I was in and out of hospitals. Meanwhile, I’m seeing every doctor in the world because my father had the contacts and I had the money coming off Wall Street. I’m throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at clinics, doctors, and therapies. Before biohacking was even a word, I did everything I could because I wanted to feel better. I finally ended up at 83 lb and this is no joke. I was something like this in a hospital. I was wasting away and I dropped 40 lb in literally a month. Nobody could figure out what was going on. The doctors gave me a 1% chance of living through the night. The day I arrived in that hospital, they said they had never seen anything like this. A patient with liver failure, kidney failure, pancreatic failure, and across the board. It was just a total mess, and thought I was gone. I believed that was my time. Then I said, okay, I lived a great life. I had already done some great things. I’m 27, 30 years old, almost the end of that window of 27. I had a talk with God. It was one of those situations that you hear about, you read about. It happened and I couldn’t believe it. I mean, it was really that moment. When God gave me the question, which was, do I want to stay here? Immediately I felt this amazing amount of love just coming through my family and the world around me. I had this epiphany and I had created my worst fear, which was right in the moment. If I created my worst fear, I could create my wildest dreams and I didn’t know it then. However, we create with thoughts, feelings, and emotions. This is also electrons and there is also electricity. This is also information that gets into a deeper part. However, right after that 40 hospital day hospital stay. I got out of that because God told me that everything was going to be great and I was going to thrive. It was going to be hard at first and it was brutal. One of the first things I did when I got out was my father had just received one of these prototypes for the earthing mat. It was the same one that the guys in the Tour de France were using. Then what I did was I plugged it into the earth, like, right in the grass behind me, you see this little virtual image. Then, I ran the cord into my mother’s house, and I slept on this. I had the first night’s sleep in like two months where I slept six hours, totally unbroken.

Step – I didn’t have to get up or go to the bathroom I had. Previously, I had the worst neuropathy ever in my legs and I couldn’t even move. Then, all of a sudden I wake up and I’m like, wow, what just happened? It was from that day on, I knew that there was a massive connection, because when you’re sick or you’re sensitive, you feel things. Even when I was in the hospital environment, I could feel a cell phone ring outside the room. You just have a different layer of communicating with the field. I felt this so deep in my resonance, and I just knew at that moment that that’s what was going to catapult my healing. Thus, it did and I thrived. I knew that I needed to find the ground. It all kind of culminated in this interesting story. Then, my father started amping up his involvement in grounding. I got involved, I started www.grounded.com in 2009 and my brother got involved. My sister now works with us and we run the company together. We’re very passionate about it because we’ve seen it from me. They all were in the hospital with me. They saw the transformation that happened, and we’ve done all the research. It’s there, it’s true and I love it.

Clint – What a story. On a much smaller scale, but to drive home the point to the rheumatoid arthritis audience, nothing works as well for feet, for inflammatory arthritis in the feet. Rather than getting out every single day and walking 20 minutes on soft grass. It’s the number one strategy that I recommend to people and have done for years, and do it myself. However, let’s address as much of the skepticism as we possibly can. You mentioned that your father especially was uncovering many years ago. What are some of the more well-documented or famous studies that help to drive home the evidence behind this?

Step – Yeah, it goes back to the inflammation situation again. One of my favorite studies is the one my father did on blood viscosity. Blood viscosity is basically like hypercoagulation and it’s a 21st-century phenomenon. It didn’t exist before maybe, but it’s basically when the blood is like red ketchup, as my father would say. We want blood like red wine where it’s flowing. It’s going where it needs to go. It’s getting through those small, narrow capillaries. Nutrients are being exchanged correctly. If your blood is thick, which we’ve all which has also been proven post-Covid, that also thickens the blood. You are in more of a hypoxic state because you’re not getting the oxygen that you need. So that whole downstream effect is just going to create inflammation. I have been looking at my blood for many years under doing blood microscopy. Maybe you’ve done that before, I assume. It’s fascinating.

Clint – During the early stages, but not recently. When I was sick, I did it a couple of times and never in the healthy years.

Step – When you were sick, how did it look? Do you still remember?

Clint – The guy who ran it said, you can see that all of your blood appears to be sticking together. I’ll never forget the words and what it looked like on the microscope screen.

Step – Yeah, exactly. What’s causing that problem is some inflammatory response going on in the body. Now, that could be coming from an external factor, like excessive EMFs, poor food choices, bad water, the myriad of stuff we know we’re dealing with these days. My father decided to run this study and see if it’s going to improve the blood and it does. The number one study he has, in my opinion, which I believe could win a Nobel Prize, is this blood viscosity one. I believe it’s that important, especially from a cardiovascular perspective. However, getting into inflammation, we have thin blood. You’re going to be feeling great and healthy. Your body is going to be recharging. The key here is that with thinner blood and blood moving through the body, you generate electricity. There is a the heart does way more than just pump blood. I mean, I also believe that’s part of a myth. The heart is kind of there to facilitate this electric conduction of blood that’s going through the body. Stephanie talks about this, and the more the blood can flow correctly, the more these electrons are created in a magnetic field. This magnetic field is your energy, this is your prana. This is everything that’s going out without sounding too woo-woo. We have to remember that I’m trying to debunk the theory of the Newtonian model of the body. Thus, brings us into the quantum where as electrical beings we need to feed ourselves electricity. Also, it comes in the form of electrons, which we’re getting from the Earth. Blood viscosity is a huge study. Another study is zeta potential same thing in a way. So zeta potential is the negative charge between blood cells. If the charge of the cell is too low, you are also going to have that clumping effect. You need more of this charge to repel those blood cells, to keep them from sticking. You see what I mean? If you have that, well, then you’ve got more change going on in the body. Bruce Lipton would say, there are 7 trillion cells or some million cells in the body. All cells are resonating at like -40 millivolts. When you have cancer, that drops. Dr. Jerry Tennant talks about this too. He’ll claim that there is an electrical component to overall health, especially cancer. If you’re grounding and you’re increasing your electrons, you’re therefore getting thinner blood repelling the blood from each other. You’re able to produce better electricity at a core cellular level. Therefore, cancer or inflammation is not able to take hold. If that maybe kind of simplifies it. There’s a little more detail in there, but I want to leave it like there.

Clint – Yes. Yeah. Excellent. Then in smaller studies, I recall that there’s also been some for arthritis, I mean, you co-authored. If people are interested in going through this in detail. I mean, go to Biomedical Journal, volume 46, issue one, February 2023, Grounding-The Universal Anti-Inflammatory Remedy. In here, we’re talking about basically a literature review of all the studies that have occurred. I mean, I’m guessing over the last 30, 40 years, and you break it down by condition. You can break it down also by category of mechanism at play to talk about the electron flow as one and include other mechanisms at play. Talking about the effect of COVID-19, the age-related theory of electron deficiency, and free radical breakdown. It’s a wonderful read and it’s very exciting. To what extent would you say that like, to what level of degree of conviction do you have that the evidence is so great that everyone should be doing this?

Step – 100%. Yeah, because I’ve been there when the studies were being done. I’ve seen this, I have seen the transformation. My father did a study where he ground a patient with severe retinopathy. The blood flow is not getting into those deep capillaries of the eye. Some of the smallest capillaries in the body. After 40 minutes of grounding, they used the equipment, and they found that the blood was finally getting deep into that area. Thus, that’s how healing is going to occur. I’ve seen it firsthand with my body and I’ve seen it with my studies, and there’s more coming out. The kind of idea with the universal antioxidant is you can go grab a handful of pills or supplements. These are also antioxidants and there are a lot of antioxidants out there, even in nature. Also, special foods and get them into the body. Well, that’s the biochemical approach or you can do the electrical approach, which is with the Earth.

Clint – Gotcha. There’s one other approach that we use in our program, which is building up our exercise and fitness capacity. Yes, we are building up more glutathione, catalase, and superoxide dismutase, all of these antioxidant enzymes. I’m just wondering how that might fit into the electron supply from the Earth, perhaps it’s a little bit too complicated. I don’t know, you might be able to shed some light out all together.

Step – I mean, we’re on to something. We know those pillars, right? Why is health like this? Exercise is so important. Well, you talk about SOD, glutathione, and BDNF. Thus, all of that is once again downstream stuff from what, from getting more electrons. If we think about it like this, we’re going to get more electrons if we exercise. Why? It is because we’re increasing our respiratory rate. We’re bringing more oxygen into the body and exercise alone will help thin the blood. Exercise alone will help bring up Zeta potential. This is my personal theory and this has not been proven. I believe the body, like I said, is generating its electrons. It has this capacity and just think about it. We’re maintaining this temperature at whatever it is 98.6°F. We’re able to function and we have all this incredible energy. We have current and we are a magnetic field that’s been proven. Somehow this whole body isn’t an energetic system, which means we have a battery within us. I believe those batteries are there more than you know. They’re a cellular membrane level deep in the mitochondria. They’re deep everywhere, almost in the body and especially the fascia. Thus, that’s the semiconductor as our own battery. If we start moving it around and shaking it just like an example with exercise. It has to generate more like back to the blood flow ripping through the body. Going through you’re creating more of a magnetic field. This is my theory and it hasn’t been proven yet, but I’m working on this.

Clint – I love it. This is right on the money of the things I like to talk about. Rarely do I meet someone and shed light on things that I think about a lot. This is fascinating to me. Let’s now bring it back to very practical step-by-step instructions that can help people. First of all, I mentioned the feet and the response. That’s again anecdotal, but it’s helpful not just for me but our community. It’s a lot of people doing this, a lot of people saying it’s doing them good. Do you think that or do we know from the science in your research that when the feet connect with the Earth, the electrons reach all far distant parts of the body, or is it just localized to the foot? So that’s the first question.

Step – Good question. I mean, if we do some thermography and we kind of look at that. You can kind of see something right over like a time-lapse. But here’s what I think is going on in the feet. We have all kinds of bases of the meridian channels for acupuncture and acupuncture. Meridians are kind of those energy channels where the flow could be going through the electron capacity to deliver where it needs to go. I also believe that the fascia in the body, which is very important and completely overlooked, has these semiconductor properties. You know how like when you look at a steak and you cut it? I know maybe plant-based. If you ever look at that kind of shimmery, silvery, sinewy thing in a steak, that’s super hard, and that’s the fascia. It has the property to conduct electrons. If it’s stuck or it’s not moving, that’s a problem. Thus, that’s why like foam rolling, simple things like stretching and stuff also help. Like, creating more of a flow, but the feet are very important. My father would always talk about just the most important is the Kidney 1 point right in the middle. That’s Kidney 1 point from traditional acupuncture. When you’re getting energy coming up through that, your kidneys are your jing your or your energy. We’re learning so much more about this, but there’s some ancient wisdom here. Thus, the energy is coming up through the feet, but it will go everywhere. That’s my theory.

Clint – Oh, I love that. It is because if we’re wearing shoes as well, not only is there no actual contact. Let’s say, they’re rubber shoes with the earth. The first place that we understand and that’s very obvious. However, what’s less obvious as well is that there’s no actual contact of that arch part, that crucial acupuncture part because of the arch in the heel. It only really touches a surface if you have soft grass where the whole arch of the foot can come in contact.

Step – You’re right. Exactly. It’s kind of like right where my head is on this virtual thing, you know? It’s like, that’s it. Exactly, you nailed it. Like this piece. I mean, I’m glad you brought up the shoes because we have this chart in that, in that research paper that you mentioned. Where hey, is there a correlation here between when rubber-soled shoes were introduced to the world in the late 40s, 50s, etc.? Then, all of a sudden all these inflammatory diseases like diabetes and RA everything started to kind of creep up. It is because as the general population started putting rubber on their feet, they were disconnecting from the frequency and electron transfer. Therefore, is this possible? We’re making the claim that, yes, this could be possible. Not saying it 100%, but I do believe it’s possible and think about it. We’re using rubber-soled shoes. We’re getting bombarded by non-native magnetic fields and electromagnetics. We are more of a toxic soup just across the board from the food supply to once again we get into mercury, etc. The body isn’t able to repair itself if it’s not getting those electrons. Thus, there’s going to be some more modern illness. We think that’s part of the reason why society is dealing with it’s dealing with today.

Clint – I love this. We’ve spoken a little bit about this, electron transfer from the Earth. I understand this concept because I’ve read into this research myself. However, for the benefit of our audience, I think we’ve overlooked this and we need to explain this. The Earth is this infinite supply of electrons, isn’t it? That’s self-producing and can you just put better words around this concept for us?

Step – Yeah, sure. Let’s think of it like this. The Earth is just one big battery. I mean, like you said, it just stores electrons. Now, where’s it getting these electrons from? Well, that is going on deep in the ionosphere where there is a negative charge on the surface of the Earth and a positive charge way up in the ionosphere. Then my father would always talk about all the lightning strikes occurring around the equator. It is also part of the charging mechanism that is bringing this electricity into the Earth. Those are happening because of that charge from the positive up to the negative down, attracting that energy. The Earth is its energy machine, but it’s also a battery storing electrons. Therefore, I also claim that the body is the same thing once again, that we are our energy machine and we also store electrons. We lose them when what emotional stress ever just life. This is just everything. We’re always losing electrons, so we need a constant supply of electrons. Does that help?

Clint – Yeah, absolutely. We’re losing them to our food too. An area of research that I’m very passionate about is heated fats, especially heated oils. How does that dramatically increase the free radical potential because the fats oxidize during the heating process completely? As a result, if we’re stir-frying foods, especially high-fat foods, and then consuming them. Then, our body has to contribute the electrons to that meal to neutralize it, and the body does that. Okay. We have this concept of postprandial or after-our-meal oxidative load on the body. If we consume a lot of antioxidant-rich foods with the meal, we can neutralize them with our foods. If we don’t and this happened to me back in 2017, I ate a highly multi-heated deep-fried meal and my rheumatoid goes boom. Would you agree that this phenomenon is a powerful one?

Step – Yeah, absolutely. I was a nutritionist and I studied natural health, all that stuff. I was so gangbusters on rancid oils and even just oils being fresh. Also, they’re pressed even just eating nuts that have been in a package. Thus, those are getting rancid. I mean, nuts came in a shell that you break like a walnut. You break it and it’s fresh. You eat it there, then you’re getting that right Omega oil that you want that hasn’t been rancid. My father talked a lot about this, too. Rancid oils are super oxidative as you mentioned. Your body has to pull electrons to put out that fire and that is this constant problem. If you’re eating those types of oils or you’re getting that in your food supply constantly, you’re in depletion mode and not in acceleration mode.

Clint – I hear you. Okay. Before I ask you kind of your top five recommendations for people and so on? Let me just see here what I wanted to find out. Do you think? I shouldn’t ask you because you know the studies of this. How effective are the local patches and connecting to the earth sockets as opposed to just holding a tree standing in the grass? What are the differences in terms of efficacy?

Step – Yeah. Good question and we get that a lot. Well, let’s it’s simple. Connecting with the Earth is going to be like top tier. It doesn’t get any more than that. However you do it, it doesn’t matter that much. I mean, I like to say that the gold standard is jumping in the sea or the ocean. That’s the best, hands down the best, and that’s why I moved to Greece. I should take this virtual background off and I can show you the sea behind me, literally. That’s why I moved here. It is because I want to be in the sea every day. Why? It’s basically like the amniotic fluid of the earth, and there’s minerals. When you get those minerals, also when you’re connected to the Earth, it’s going to be a better kind of energy flow and absorption rate because you are also minerals. But getting back, if you touch a tree or a leaf with skin conductivity, you’re immediately grounded. Now, if we go into the outlet, which we’re talking about. We’re getting the products, okay? You live in a city, you’re in, Manhattan, like I was. You have to get into the grounding system of the house and this is an option. I mean, we live in a modern world and that’s why these products came about. It is because a lot of people can’t do that daily, or it’s just too cold and it’s as simple as that. I get it, you have the option to go through the outlet, which is good. You also have the other option to put a grounding rod into the earth and run that wire. As I said, into the house and then sleep on, connect that to the mat. I much prefer that one more than anything else because you’re going direct once again. If you’re going into the wall outlet, there is a theory out there about some dirty electricity, and that still hasn’t really been fully debunked. However, I have experienced certain times where I’m saying, let’s say if I’m in Las Vegas, which I never want to go to unless you pay me to go there to speak about this. If you’re there and you plug into that, there’s a lot of electromagnetics going on all around you. You may have the ability to kind of pull that in through the grounding system that’s going through like the hotels. I just know that I sleep better when I use the grounding rod, that’s simple. I’m very intuitive and I feel it. I just feel better when I do it that way. Thus, that’s how I do it and I would recommend people do it.

Clint – Okay. This is now just like a genuine, like a customer sort of feedback thing. You may have heard this a lot before, maybe not, or maybe the product. I have the earthing sheet. It’s not a sheet, but it’s like a mat. If you like, that sits under you that I bought, that I put on my bed. I found that wasn’t breathing very well and I was getting very hot at night. Instead of that, I’ve thought, I tried it. However, for me, that particular product and it was it caused me to overheat at night. I really just invest all of my energy into getting out naturally and getting barefoot. As my kids said today when I told them about who my guest was for this show this evening. They said, Daddy, you go and walk in mud. You’ve walked when it’s raining barefoot. I said, I do, honey, because it works. Does your company supply and address the issue of potentially the breathability of the sleep products?

Step – Yeah. Are you talking about the sheets or is it like the black mat?

Clint – It’s a black mat and it’s thick-ish with little holes through it. It’s somewhat it has some weight to it.

Step – Yeah, I don’t know the exact mat but I think I have an idea because there are so many versions of these now. I mean, there are a lot of knockoffs, and Clint was the one that has the patents that created this 20 years ago. He’s constantly working on refining the products to make them better and better and better. Yes, some maybe weren’t weren’t breathable. You would get you would get hot. If I have to reframe that, there’s also something really good about that. If you do perspire, you sweat a little bit. Well, your perspiration has minerals in it. If that touches the the mat, that way you’re going to conduct much better with a lot of people with chronic illness. I was one of them when I had no thyroid hormones. I was cold all the time, I was thin, and I wasn’t grounded even if I was sleeping on the sheet. It is because my body just didn’t have enough blood flow literally on the surface of my skin. Until I heal up my thyroid, then it’s fine. I get it from when people are sick like you to heal the nervous system. Number one, getting grounded is super important because you need that warmth of that electron. Thus, that helps and it really will help.

Clint – Yeah. I also have the pillow sheet. As I mentioned at the top of the conversation here, a bunch of other little bits and bobs. Ultimately, after investing into this quite a lot, I end up just depending most upon just getting amongst it.

Step – I do the same and I completely hear you. I mean, I want to say one thing because I’m looking at it right now, it’s my laptop. This I have grounded out at the moment. There is a grounding mat on my laptop and it’s going out to a cord right out this window. I feel like that’s better because I know the magnetic field coming off the laptop or even when you touch it, especially if it’s plugged in. It’s what you’re getting tested all this with meters and that’s when you’re getting. I can feel it and you’re getting that, let’s say AC, which is not great.

Clint – Wow. I’m sure our audience, other people listening who even don’t have RA. My wife, even who’s as healthy as they come, like she’ll use the computer for a while and we tested this ourselves. Not the way that you do, but just a feeling. I’d read from the earthing community and it could have been even your dad’s work. I don’t know over the years that if the computer is plugged in the earthing connection is therefore established. Therefore, it shouldn’t be as free radical creating. Can you tell us what we should be doing with this?

Step – Yeah. When I use my laptop, unless the battery is completely shot, I like to keep it off like it’s not connected to the power source. It’s because maybe a lot of those Apple plugs are not grounded. Do you know what I mean?

Clint – Yeah, that’s what I got right here.

Step – Yeah. A lot of them don’t have the three-prong. You need that three-prong piece that’s growing into the ground circuit.

Clint – You’re right, this doesn’t have the plug and I never thought about it.

Step – It’s a massive magnetic field because there’s no discharge of that energy. You can feel it coming at you, and that’s not healthy. Thus, that energy has to be grounded somehow. You spend some time on the computer a lot of people do. We’re talking to them right now, they’re even using their hands. Thus, they’re that close to them and that could be causing part of the RA problem or worsening it. Thus, you have computer fatigue. Have you ever experienced computer fatigue? You know what I’m talking about.

Clint – Most definitely.

Step – Yeah, we all do. Well, maybe it’s just because of the magnetic field coming off the computer and because it’s not grounded correctly. Basically, that’s why I ground my laptop and I only use it um off. Now, that gets into AC and DC. Now, you’re in New Zealand.

Clint – I’m in Australia at the moment.

Step – What’s Australia, that’s AC I think right?

Clint – Yeah.

Step – It’s been a little while since I was there but AC or alternating current. It’s part of the reason I moved to Europe I believe to DC, which resonates at 50Hz. Known to build bone 60Hz isn’t a great frequency and that’s AC. Also, you’re getting this like on off, on off, and at a really deep level. The nervous system has a problem calibrating that. We don’t think about it too much, but it does. Thus, it’s better to use anything with just when it’s on its battery, because then if it’s battery, that’s DC. Without getting too crazy on this.

Clint – Now, let’s talk about phones. What are we dealing with there?

Step – A whole lot. I mean, I’m guilty of it, too. I believe part of this precipitated part of my health issue. I went to Wall Street in 1998, and it gives away my age. I was right out of college, but I had a cell phone in 1997, almost 96. That’s incredibly early, and I was just one of these guys. I loved the technology and I wanted to get involved. I had a cell phone to my ear in 1996, bad news. I knew it then and I just knew it then. It’s been 27 years since I’ve been using a cell phone. Then, 3-4 years into that in 2001, I could feel it was bad from just one long call I had on my right ear for like an hour and a half or two hours one day. I have never used a phone to my ear literally in 23 years. Never like ever put a phone to my ear. I don’t care what situation I’m in, or what’s going on, I will never do it. I use the speakerphone always, and I try to either hold the phone away from me or put it down somewhere. It is because the distance you are from the phone is a no-brainer. I mean, we’ve tested all this and the strength of the power you want to be away from.

Step – There are so many other things too. If there’s a cell phone tower over there. Well, the power to the phone is going to be not so bad. You could hold it and you’re not getting so much radiation. However, the cell phone tower is four kilometers away from the line of sight. Then, that cell phone has to use 20 times more power to connect to that tower. You’re also getting that dissipating or the energy from that. So, what do I do? I live in airplane mode and I’ve been saying this for 15 years. Ever since I had my whole hospital situation, I knew that electromagnetics was part of what I went through and I could feel it. Ever since then, I just do what I need to do on the phone. I make my texts and then I send them. Then, I turn it off airplane mode, they all send, and I turn it right back on airplane mode. That’s how I live and I take my iPhone and I use an Ethernet cord, like something like this. I hook it up and I hardwire it to the Ethernet. If I have the option that makes sense.

Clint – Of course, you take out the wireless component and you’re getting it via the cabled version of the internet.

Step – Yeah. I can be on the internet, on my cell phone with absolutely pretty much next to nil radiation compared to what it was before if you’re using Wi-Fi or cellular. It’s operable on airplane mode, which is such a great hack. Honestly, like still a lot of people don’t don’t employ that, which I think is one of the best things you can do.

Clint – Right. For people who may be not so tech savvy I also am sure of what I’m doing. You go to your modem in the house and it normally has a bunch of outlets at the back. Most people don’t use them anymore because it’s just 100% Wi-Fi in the house. For most people, what you’re saying is to get one of the cables that we all used to love about 8 to 10 years ago. Stick it into the back of that modem, even if it’s a long cable trailing through your house somewhere. Then, you can connect that straight to your phone and you don’t need to use the Wi-Fi. You just put this thing on airplane mode and you’re away.

Step – Yeah. I mean, think about it again. You’re holding the phone. Where is the RA coming to your body? Your hands mostly talk about my mother all the time. Who suffers from RA? I’m like, mom, stop holding the phone and doing video calls. I mean, you’re just getting completely saturated. If you can hardwire, that’s the best and you feel like it’s 1980s. But you know what? You’re going to feel better in my opinion.

Clint – Good. I can attest to this I haven’t asked many people this, strangely enough, but I can attest to holding the phone for long periods. I define long as anything more than ten minutes. When I put it down, it takes me maybe two grasps of my hand to create a wicked fist. The first one, it’s only 90%. Then, the second one, it’s working perfectly and that is a bad sign. You know what I mean? Now, throughout the rest of the day, if I don’t touch my phone, my hands are perfect.

Step – It’s fine, I know exactly what you mean. A lot of people might not feel it. They just might not feel it. I feel like I’m the canary in the coal mine and I feel something’s happening. We don’t know exactly what it is, but something is happening.

Clint – Now, we’re going to talk about what people can do that you would say would be for arbitrary sake. For example, 3 to 5 things that you would recommend for great health for people to do each day. Then, I’m going to take it to your extreme. What’s the end game here? What does your life look like? You mentioned swimming in the ocean. Wonderful, what else? I want to hear the spectrum starting with your average Joe. What should the average Joe do?

Step – The average Joe, simple, just get outside. As soon as you wake up, I think one of the best things to do is get grounded. You walk outside somehow and get your feet in the grass. Within the first 15 minutes, you wake up and get sunlight in your eyes. These two things will rocket your health or just make you feel good and increase your mood. It is because you know you want some photo biomodulation. You want to set your whole endocrine system or your whole hormonal structure to say, it’s now morning and let me get this. You’re going to help your melatonin production out by getting some sun direct sunlight. I’m talking about, like, don’t look directly at the sun. However, let it come into your eyes first just for a few minutes in the morning while you’re grounded. I think it’s one of the best things you can do, and that’s for five minutes. It’s going to make a good impact and I struggle with it too. Sometimes I just want to wake up and I want to make coffee first. Then, I’m like let me just go and then breathe. If you add some breathing into that, then you’ve got the trifecta. There you go and you’re good. Then, you watch like emotionally and you’ll say, I feel great. Once you say that to yourself, I feel great. Well, now you’re programming your mind and this is also another whole thing. This is also free and all these free things are the absolute best things you can do. We just don’t do them and I get it. I’ve been there too, and a lot of it is just programming, conditioning, and modern lifestyle. Thus, it’s why I’ll spin it back. I live in Greece because when I wake up I love it, I get out, I open the door, and I’m immediately on stone steps. I’m 45 meters from the sea. Before I can even think, I just kind of automate this. I walk outside, my feet are barefoot, and I’m walking down to the sea. I’m getting my feet in the sand with the water coming on it, and I just start breathing. I look at the sun and I might do this for five, ten, twenty minutes, or half an hour. Then, I go back and I make my coffee, and my day is fantastic.

Clint – Yeah, that’s just idealistic, isn’t it?

Step – I want to preface it like it took me 22 years to get here. It wasn’t like I just moved to Greece because I focused on it. I had to make the money and I had to do this. I had to get everything aligned to make this happen. I envisioned that for myself as that was the lifestyle I wanted to live because I knew it was good for me on multiple levels. I was willing to do whatever it took to make that happen, and I did.

Clint – Yeah, because there are sacrifices, no doubt, aren’t there? I mean, you’re in a different time zone. If you’re running a business through US.

Step – It’s tough.

Clint – We’re very familiar with this because we’re in Australia. You’ve probably got friends and family that are based in the US. You’ve probably, on a small scale, shipped things with regards to modern living with Amazon.

Step – You nailed everything right there. You’re pretty perceptive.

Clint – If you’ve got your hierarchy of needs and health is at the top, I mean, the benefits are insane. Can you tell us how you recovered? Let’s sort of close out with this, your story you told us about that nightmarish 1% chance of survival that you were given. Then, now we see you looking like just the epitome of health. Living on an island in Greece, stepping into the water each morning. You’re running this amazing company that’s helping people use free information. Then, you’re driving this message through the medical community so that it filters down, which is the hard part, getting the medical community to pay attention. Thus, that’s another challenge that I am aware of. How did you go from that to this in a milestone-by-almost-milestone breakdown?

Step – Well, it didn’t happen overnight. My recovery out of the hospital took two years. The doctors told me in the hospital, I’ll never be able to go to the bathroom on my own. I mean, that’s how bad it was. They also said you’ll hardly be able to walk or you’ll never exercise again, and so that’s number one. Pillar number one is probably like, it’s your mind. This is the best piece of software in the entire world or the entire universe. We have access to it and once again it’s free. Also, getting back to everything free. If we can program the mind correctly, you’re 100% going to do what you want to do. You know this because I always say this if you don’t program your mind, it’s going to be programmed for you. And you have to tell yourself that you’re going to get better. You have to wake up as soon as your first thought in the morning is, I feel great, and say that to yourself. I feel amazing today because the default on the mind wants to go to what’s wrong. They want to feel the pain and we want to search for something. Hey, is everything okay? You have to tell the mind that everything is okay. It was more natural and it was letting go of anything toxic in my life, which happened to be a lot of work relationships, belief systems, and foods. From where I was living, electromagnetics, taking all those like toxicities out and re-putting them in once again. Mostly the free stuff, good air, good water, good sunlight, and the simple stuff. Also, the exercise like you talk about it and this is really great. The reason I left the States is I believe they failed in a lot of that. Was the water source good? No, it was not. Was there more pollution in the States? In my opinion, there was. I was living in Southern California. I didn’t like waking up and smelling pollution blowing down from LA when I was living near San Diego. I couldn’t stand that and I know it’s not good for me. It’s like smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. So that’s why it took much time to make that move. Then say, I just want clean air because I know from clean air I’m getting negative ions. I want that and all of those things just finally culminated. Thus, I moved to Europe and I went to Germany first. Then, I came down to Greece and I fell in love with it because it had cleaner inputs. It’s a little bit tricky in this modern world to find that. I do think Margaret River has that and I love that place.

Clint – Yeah, it’s over near Perth for people wondering. It’s on the it’s not on the Sydney side of Australia. It’s on the opposite side and it’s like the California side of Australia. My parents went there about six months ago and they loved it. I’ve never been my friend who’s an entertainer. A good friend of mine and his my best man at my wedding. He’s just driving there right now doing stand-up comedy over there. I spoke to him just a couple of hours ago before our call. Do you think the Margaret River is also another special place for this?

Step – I do, you’ve got all of that. You’ve got a lot of great nature, beaches, and good air coming off you know. I think Australia just in general has so much prolific nature that you have access to. It’s not like that so much in the States or even Europe. You got to find it and you got to go really out of your way to get that.

Clint – Love it. Thank you, here’s a subtle one. It’s tricky, isn’t it? When we’re consumed by a stimulus like you were in your phenomenal corporate career living in New York. As you said, cell phones and apartment living. It’s very hard when the conscious brain is making decisions to get out of that conscious brain loop. With a higher quality sequence of actions that don’t stimulate this sort of conscious mind dopamine satisfaction. However, things that are calmer and more nurturing things. It is a weird tension in the body to go from this to this. There’s a lot of desire to keep this going. How did you disconnect that? Then, I’ll let you go.

Step – I mean, that’s an ongoing thing and that’s part of being human, living in how we live. I did realize that number one, stress is addictive. As a culture, we are almost addicted to it, especially with American culture. I believe we’re addicted to stress and that’s another reason I came to Europe. The unfortunate thing is I had lost my nervous system and from adrenal fatigue. I know what it’s like to have a nervous system when a phone rings or somebody drops a plate you feel like you’re done for the day. You can’t even function because the nervous system can’t get back to homeostasis. I prize my nervous system and I don’t put myself in any more stressful situations or the rushing like you mentioned. Even just people with chronic illnesses, you’re really sick. You’re going from doctor to doctor appointment and you’re scheduling calls. I mean, that alone is so stressful and it’s the pressure in your nervous system is off the charts. You just take that out and say, I’m going to just that’s what I did. I’m going to just sit in nature, have no appointments, and no stressors like that. Thus, I got better and that was free, but it took more time. You have to be a little bit more patient and we don’t want to be patient. I think that’s the message and that’s just the beauty of also of being human.

Clint – I love it. Fantastic. Step, where can people learn more about what you do? Also, about some of the other not necessarily just the earthing and grounding aspects. It is because you’re much more diverse in your offerings. I don’t know whether or not you want to direct people to maybe a website or some other interviews you’ve done. What would you like to share?

Step – Yeah, sure. Thanks for that and I just want to acknowledge. Thank you very much for wanting to do this show. It is because with what we talk about my family is what’s free. We’re able to give other people products, commissions, and stuff. I always say this, we sell broccoli. You don’t see commercials for broccoli and it’s healthy for you. It’s pretty much free compared to everything else. Thus, it’s why I appreciate that you’re on the show to share the message. If people want, they can go to my website, which is www.stepsinatra.com, that’s my nickname is Step Sinatra. You can also to grounded, which is the best. I would say go to www.grounded.com. We’ve been running that since 2009 and there’s tons of information on there, and that’s probably the best place to start. Social media has never been my thing. Why? It is because I just don’t want to be on the phone any more than I’m on the phone. It’s as simple as that. I would say the websites are the best or you can have the book, “Get Grounded, Get Well”.

Clint – Get Grounded, Get Well. I’ve got it open on another tab on Amazon. You can get that at a low cost and learn a whole bunch more. Are people able to, on your www.grounded.com website, also get some of the sorts of items that we’ve discussed, especially the laptop grounding mat?

Step – Yeah, everything’s there. However, it’ll probably send you to, if you’re in Australia with another company or something like that. We’re working on actually setting that up now but they’re able to see all the products. Then, maybe you’ll find something locally through wherever you can get them, where you are.

Clint – Awesome. Step, thank you so much. I hope everyone has enjoyed this interview. As I said, this has been part of my recovery from dramatically horrible rheumatoid arthritis. To now have my C-reactive protein down to 0.6/one millimeter per hour SED rate. It’s like phenomenal numbers and I feel strong. It’s the amazing part of it, a major part of it that I would miss if I wasn’t able to do it is connecting with nature. Thus, I encourage everyone. If they’re not doing it, do it. If the weather’s bad, look at Step’s website, and get some of these bits and bobs into your house. Then, let’s do it in a modified way to get the benefits of the infinite electron supply from the Earth and all the benefits that that can provide. Step, I should say, thank you so much and it’s been awesome.

Step – It’s been a pleasure. Thanks, Clint. That was great.