After 20 years of Rheumatoid Arthritis, Erika now knows how to reverse joint symptoms and has gotten off drugs she has been using for many years including daily steroids and NSAID’s.

We discuss in this interview:

• Erika’s life with rheumatoid arthritis for 20 years⁠⁠, managing symptoms with her lifestyle and medications
• Her experience with multiple medications including Methotrexate, Enbrel, Prednisolone⁠⁠
• An emergency room experience due to side effects
• How she got started with Clint Paddison’s Personalised RA Coaching Program by booking a free RA Strategy Session
• Dietary changes that helped, especially removing oils⁠⁠
• Vitamin D and B12 supplementation improved energy levels⁠⁠
• Exercise approaches focused on muscle growth⁠⁠
• How her mental health improved dramatically through physical activity⁠⁠
• Her successful tapering off with prednisolone and Celebrex⁠⁠
• How Erika now enjoys activities like ice skating with children

Clint – When you reverse rheumatoid arthritis symptoms, you aren’t just getting out of pain, you’re getting your life back. In this interview, I’m going to chat with Erica, who did our six-month coaching program. She’s going to describe in this interview how when we first started working together, she was taking low dose of Rinvoq to replace the Methotrexate and Enbrel that she had recently had to abruptly stop because the combination had landed her in the emergency room with side effects, so her doctor had to take her off that. At the time she started working with us, she was on five milligrams of Prednisolone that she’d been on for a year and a half, and she was also taking Celebrex, which she’d been taking for five consecutive years. And so when we started working together, she had that drug combination as well as depression. She had brain fog and very low energy, and her symptoms at that time were still not controlled despite that group of drugs. In the past, when she was first diagnosed, over a 20 year period, she had tried Plaquenil and Sulfasalazine, Methotrexate. And over a 20 year period had still suffered throughout that time with joint inflammation and other symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis. Erika is very, very fascinating in terms of her cultural diversity. When we did our initial breakthrough call or strategy call to get to know each other and see if she’d be a good fit for our program. She was in Brazil, but she’s actually, uh, speaks native tongue Japanese and lives actually throughout the year in Germany. So she’s got a universal approach to life. And it’s a pleasure to bring her on to this interview now and share with you her experience and most importantly, her transformation and how she has now got her life back, gotten off all the steroid, gotten off, all the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, gotten rid of all the brain fog, gotten rid of all the fatigue, and become physically strong and healthy. Erika, it’s great to have you with me.
Erika – Hi. It’s a pleasure to be with you. Uh, well, I just would like to collect, uh, my native tongue is Portuguese. I speak Japanese too, but I was born in Brazil.

Clint – Oh my gosh. Um, that’s just remarkable. Portuguese. Born in Brazil, living in Germany, but speak fluent Japanese.

Erika – Yeah. And, um, at first, I didn’t want to do this podcast because I wasn’t confident in my English. But, uh, on second thought, I, uh, the results were so, uh, amazing for me, So, uh, life change. Really? I wasn’t expecting that uh, that I, I felt that, uh, a lot of people deserve to know that they can if they have every rheumatoid arthritis. Uh, there are a lot of things they can do to improve their lives. And, uh, I wish I had known that sooner because, as you said, 20 years living with this disease. Uh, sometimes in my, uh, darkest days, I, I really thought life was not worth it. There were days that I really, uh. So, um, I really wish I thought that I would be easier than to keep going on. But now, thanks to God and with your help, everything is different.

Clint – It can get very dark at times, can’t it? And you and I spoke about this several times on a lot of the calls for our members we’ve done in the last six months, of which you attended many. And we talked about how dark it can get when we don’t have a plan. But once we have a plan and we can see a pathway to get to where we want to go, and our first few steps are rewarding and we see continual progress. It’s amazing how quickly we can get that hope back in our lives and start to regain some long-lost happiness. So you and I had a laugh before we started recording here because you said that when you first joined us, you thought it was a scam.

Erika – Yeah, yeah, let me tell. Yeah. Please. Yeah. Because, uh, as I told you, um, well, my family, uh, uh, has a Japanese background in Japan. Uh, food is associated with health. So, uh, I learned it from my parents, my grandparents, that we should care about what we eat and we should care about exercise and so on. So when I was, uh, diagnosed, I started to look for, uh, foods that could help my health. But, uh, back in that time, there wasn’t so much information. Internet-like, now. And, uh, well, I gather any piece of information I could find, So I started going, uh, dairy free, lactose free, gluten free. And, uh, later, I found the paleo diet. And that helped. But not because of the diet itself. But I think because I eliminate all refined sugar and processed food. And that would help anyone and not only people with rheumatoid arthritis. So then I found, uh, autoimmune protocol and the name. I thought it was very promising, but it helped. But I can’t say it was something very, uh, life changing. So, uh, and I was doing exercise two, uh, 2 to 3 times a week, and until I was 42, uh, medicine was doing its job. I was okay. I can’t say I was pain free, but, uh, I could live my life. I could do things. But, uh, as I get older, uh, airway starts to go downhill very fast. And, um, every single month, I was, uh, increasing the dose of methotrexate. But just to to talk about that, I already use, uh, I started with drugs, chloroquine, then sulfasalazine and the methotrexate.

Erika – And they embrace. And then back to methotrexate. So methotrexate was increasing every six month until I get to 22.5mg a week. And then it was not enough. Then I was prescribed anti-inflammatory Celebrex. And then it was not enough. And I was prescribed prednisolone. And I was with this tree and it was not enough. I was feeling miserable. I was tired in the afternoon. I had pain, my joints was swollen. And then I agreed with the doctor. I would like to add something more? And we added the embryo on top of all that you see. And that was April 2023. I, um, and uh, two weeks later I was in emergency room because of side effects. I couldn’t feel my arms and my feet. And, uh. Uh, after speaking with my doctor, I stopped the medication. But, uh, I went to a neurologist, two neurologists, other rheumatologist to hear a second opinion. No one could explain what happened? But after that, I couldn’t tolerate any more medication for rheumatoid, for rheumatoid arthritis, any more medication. Every time I start with something, I had this, uh, tingling, painful, tingling sensation in my hands and feet. I was sorry, and I was really afraid that I could have some permanent damage in my neurological system. So I was I was desperate, and I was looking for something internet. And I found your website, and it was. You said I thought it was a scam because. Come on, Clint, you’re right. You are the free. Pain free. Reverse rheumatoid arthritis like I was so many years with that.

Erika – I was on a health diet, I was exercised, you see. What else could you offer to me? You see, I, I couldn’t. What else can I do? Uh, but I was so desperate, and the doctors had no answer to me. No one could explain why I had this, uh, tingling sensation. Why I was losing feeling of my arms and feet. And, uh, so I write some. I wrote some emails to you and Melissa. I talked to the. I talked through emails. Not with your wife, Melissa. And she convinced me, and I. I joined the, uh, the Rheumatoid Solutions website, the part of, uh, exclusive content for paid members. And, well, uh, I saw the diet. I followed the diet and has gotten better. And it’s not only the diet. You have a lot of information. And one very important thing I learned. With all the information you give in your website is the importance of vitamin B12 and vitamin D. And then I discovered I was very deficient in these vitamins. And when my levels were in the, uh, optimal levels, when I get optimal levels just with supplements. I was feeling better. I was not anymore so tired. And I. I was always hearing from doctors that I was tired because of, uh, RA. But I was also deficient in vitamins. They I was shocked, a little bit shocked because it’s so easy. It’s not something expensive. Uh, vitamin D is is so cheap and vitamin B12, too. And then I thought, well, there is more I can do.

Erika – There, there can be more things that I can do. And, uh, at that time, I was only with, um, Prednisolone and Celebrex because Was I couldn’t tolerate other medications, but I was getting better and that was impressive. I was getting better, even even without the prescribed medication for for arthritis. Uh, but then I thought I. I reached a plateau. I wasn’t getting better anymore. So I decided to join the coaching program. And then I spoke to you while I was in Brazil, which was my vacation. My summer vacation. And, uh. Well. What else? Well, the diet was very easy to follow and compare it to the diets you see in internet, because I caught the autoimmune protocol on the internet. I saw a blogger that had the same problem, but, uh, yeah, the difference. And that’s what is something that I would like to tell people why your plan is very good. Why people should, uh, join it. It’s because it’s a step by step plan. It’s very easy because one thing that I thought that was very confused when we talk about, uh, good healing, when we talk about food sensitivity. How all hell will I find? What food can I eat? What food should I not eat? Can I eat tomato? Can I eat, uh, this thing or that thing? This vegetable is good. This is not good. Because sometimes there’s so much things. The internet. And that can be very confusing. But your plan is very clear. It’s just follow this and you’ll be okay. I like that very much.

Clint – And let me just jump in for a second for people who are following along but who are curious, um, and we’ll go into more of what you’ve done in terms of the changes. What results have you got compared to when you first started with us When you’re on five milligram of prednisolone, uh, max dose of the Celebrex. And, uh, and you had failed all of those drugs over 18.5 years or no, 19 years by that point, um, and ended up in hospital. How are you now compared to then?

Erika – Yeah. And then you got, uh, it reminded me a good point, because one reason that I joined their program is that I knew that, uh, Celebrex and prednisone was going to ruin my guts, and I was really, really afraid of being not right. You know, it’s a vicious cycle because medicine will make your gut bad, and then this will make every bad. And then you are in a trap. And I was really afraid of that because everywhere I was reading that you can’t really heal the gut if you are taking an anti-inflammatory. And I was taking that for five years. That long? Five years. I was really afraid. But what happened is that after six months before, not before six months, I think it was, uh, three months ago, then three after 3 or 4 months, I was out of this, made comments. Even I myself was pretty amazed. And the doctor was really amazed because two weeks ago I was with my rheumatologist and he was very surprised because I, I was off prednisolone. He was very surprised. And my, um, my blood test, my inflammation marks were really down. He said, I have no more signs of inflammation. And he said, that’s not what I see in people that have been so long with, uh, airway. And. Well, I wasn’t expecting that it would be so fast because, um, that was not the first time that I was with Prednisone Salon, uh, long before I used it for three years. And, uh, I only get out of prednisolone because I raised methotrexate. Um, but now I get out of prednisolone without, you know, without other There’s things.

Clint – And the steroid. Five milligram of steroid. Now, this was one of our biggest targets together. We wanted to get you off that prednisolone. So for people who are on this drug, um, just FYI, the American College of Rheumatology guidelines state that people should be taking steroids, which is prednisolone or prednisone, at the lowest possible dose for the shortest possible time. Because of all the rheumatoid medications, these ones have the worst risk benefit profile. They can lead to all sorts of things like increased risk of infections, bone mineral density loss leading to osteopenia, and osteoporosis, which is dose dependent. Obviously, the more you take, the more likely this is to occur, and with severity as well as anxiety. Sleeplessness. Puffiness of the appearance in the face. Uh, high blood pressure. All sorts of potential. Not guaranteed, but potential side effects or associations. And so when we get stuck on these drugs for a very long period of time, and in your case, you were on prednisolone for a year and a half, which is by no means like a small situation to be in. This is this is not great. Um, we then really targeted the prednisolone and said, let’s make sure that after you get off the Celebrex, then we target the prednisolone. And both of these drugs are called discretionary drugs, meaning that as long as your doctor says you can taper them as you start to feel better, then you have permission from the doctor and you can go through a sensible oh, and a controlled taper process with the doctor and what I like to do.

Clint – And this is just something I’ve found works best. But every doctor should sign off on it. This is when you feel better, and you don’t need as much pain relief to get the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug down and gone first out of the system before then beginning any of the steroid taper. The reason I prefer that is because from the medical literature, it shows that the most highest risk of gastric ulcers and intestinal side effects is when we take non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and a steroid at the same time. So they seem to have a cumulative effect. So it makes more sense from a gut perspective to get rid of one entirely before starting on the next one. And so you and I, we on the same page with this doctor is on the same page. And so that’s the sequence that you went through. So you got the Celebrex out of the system completely. And then we started on the steroid. Now this was a mission wasn’t it.

Erika – Yeah it was. And I solved all these things now these side effects I was depressed because of prednisone. I, uh, my, uh, bone density was low. We used to check that with my doctor to see me. I hope I will recover that now that I’m off training salon and I was I because of prednisone, I was all, yeah, I was there not this time, this, uh, many years ago when I was for three years With prednisolone, they are always having to use anti antibiotics and antibiotic resistance. Yes. Because I frequently had infections and they couldn’t heal without antibiotics. Antibiotics. Yeah. So really it’s something that could should be forbidden. But I really. The side effects are just uh depression itself. It’s just so bad. And, uh, well, another point I would like to talk about exercise. And that was something that for me was really game changing. That was because, uh, food wasn’t the diet was, um, two different from what was falling? Well, I would like to point out that removing oils and meat was had a great respect for me in two weeks. I wasn’t expecting that to because olive oil can be very confusing. We see everywhere in the internet people saying that olive oil is good because of omega three. But, uh, at least I can say for my experience that it is not the case for people with, uh, area. For me, once I cut vegetable oil and I only used olive oil, I was, uh, better, much better.

Erika – In two weeks, I get, uh, a progress. So. And the second progress was with exercising, and I. I was doing exercise when I joined the program. I was doing strength training and biking to strength training two times a week and biking five times a week, and I thought that was enough. The problem I realized with you that I was not doing that right. Uh, and that is something very important. Uh, why, uh, people should join your program. Because it’s not about, uh, exercise. It’s the right exercise and the right amount of exercise. It’s quality over quantity. So my mistake is that I was not increasing load in my exercise. I was not targeting the muscle growth, and I was afraid of pain. I was afraid of hurting myself. And that can be very tricky. And I remember that in the beginning, I was complaining to you that when I was doing bar hanging, that was painful. And you said to me that I should continue. And I thought, why? Why? It’s painful. I was just thinking with myself. It’s painful. Why should I do that? I’m going to hurt myself. And that part is very tricky. And that’s why we need your, uh, good orientation. Because we have to learn. What’s the difference of between a good pain and the bad pain? A pain that means that we are hurting yourself.

Erika – Ourselves in that pain. That’s a muscular pain because we are working the muscles. So, um. But anyway, I thought this guy is crazy, but I will do what he is telling me to do. I will believe him. I will keep the faith. And, um. So in the beginning, it was not easy. Uh, because I was feeling pain. I was not used to that, uh, heavy exercise because I was doing exercise, but I was not pushing myself. But we have to push to make Moscow. That is the important thing to grow Moscow. And, uh. In the beginning, I was dealing with something, but was. Keep doing, keep it pushing. And at some moment I had someone that. That was the moment. Uh, I think that was the most important moment in these months with you, because I. It was like all this, um, exercise, uh, it was washing, flushing out everything that was bad inside me, and, and I, I was feeling, I was always feeling. I never thought I wasn’t happy, but I was always that feeling of, uh, sadness, anger, frustration. And I was always looking for things to cope with these feelings. I was trying to paint him meditation, hobbies because sometimes comes depression to us. This is the frustration of a limitation. But the exercise. Somehow I think my cortisol levels went down and then all these negative feelings were gone. Like like like magic. And I understand, I, I thought I was living in a fog.

Erika – I was living in a world where, um. Depression and anger. As if this should be part of our lives. But it’s. Not. I get emotional again, but because I was living my life as coping with these feelings. As if this happiness should be part of her life. If. As if this was normal. If this is what life should be. But then when the exercise pushed everything, all these bad feelings away, cortisol was down again. These feelings were gone. They were gone. I don’t need to cope with them. I don’t need to search for things to cope with these feelings anymore. They were just gone. On top of that, I got. My cognition was improved. I. I cannot sleep thinking. Thinking deeply. I mean, I cannot remember things. I cannot connect ideas. Like when I was younger and I think all these things were maybe. I don’t know if that was all side effects of medicaments or all things related to, uh, methotrexate or any other or, uh, rheumatoid arthritis itself. I don’t know what was that, but it’s gone. I sometimes I, I was playing my, my kids and they said, okay, now your mother is intelligent again. Now I can remember things. Now I can understand things better. Now I can think a little bit more. Thinking is not so difficult. Yeah.

Clint – Yeah, it’s it’s very, very, uh, profound. And in terms of the science, I think that when we have leaky gut or leaky gut and we’ve got lipopolysaccharide getting in the bloodstream, this substance can cross the blood brain barrier and can, in my view, be one of the primary reasons for brain fog and, uh, just this sense of difficulty connecting the dots sometimes. And, um, I think that once that stuff comes out of the bloodstream by healing leaky gum and leaky gut, that we not only notice the reduction in the joint pain, we also notice the reduction in fatigue. And we also then restore to a great extent, the clarity of our thoughts. So how is the relationship with your kids and your husband improved now?

Erika – Yeah, in the beginning, I was a bit difficult because we had to change the kitchen, the kitchen, the cooking. Uh, we. Yeah. But, uh, after he, my husband noticed how I was improving. He never complained anymore. And, um, everyone is being very cooperative because they see the results. Even the kids, they are eating what I eat now. So that’s good, because kids are now eat more vegetables and. Yeah.

Clint – And go ahead.

Erika – Sorry. Okay. Uh, then one more thing. Uh, when you talk about kids? Uh, one one lesson that I learned, uh, during the program is that, um, it’s not a way that limits us. It’s our belief, because I. Uh, when winter holidays, my kids like to do ice skating, and I never I usually didn’t do that with them because I was afraid to of hurting myself. I used to believe that my uncles were too weak for that, so they usually would be skating with their father, and I would just watch. But last year, after I joined the program, I promised my son that this Christmas that was 2024. This Christmas, we are going to ice skate together. And I was challenging myself. I thought, okay, now I have three months to be stronger, to grow Moscow so I can do that. And the day came and we ice skating together, me and my son, we had a lot of fun together. And, um, the end of the day, I was not tired. I thought I would be tired, I thought I would be in pain. Nothing happened. No pain, no fatigue. And the next day I was in June again. So what I learned is that. Our destiny is shaped by what we believe. I believe I couldn’t then, I really didn’t. The moment I changed, I start. Okay, now I can. Now I do. I will work to be able to do that. It’s changed. You see, it wasn’t my my it’s not. It wasn’t rheumatoid arthritis. It’s not a way. It was my mind because I was limiting myself. Because I was thinking I couldn’t. So. That was great too.

Clint – How do you wake up now in the morning? What is your morning stiffness like? Um, how do you get about your day? Uh, energy levels and, um, also, in addition to that, what does it feel like now to be free of the steroid?

Erika – Well, you see, we talked before. Uh, I don’t think I mentioned that, but, um. Uh, you see, I was with so many medicines. I was with methotrexate. Uh, Celebrex. Prednisolone. Uh, and I was feeling bad. I had no energy. And now I’m using rinvoq 15mg, the lowest dose possible. Just one medicine, you see. Just one. And I feel myself better than when I was with three things. And to be very honest, I was. I never been so good in all my life with RA as I’m feeling now. Because I have energy again. Depression is gone. I don’t need to rest in the afternoon. I don’t feel tired. I can go all day working, doing things here and then. And. The most important, I think. Not even the body itself. It’s the soul. The mind. You see? We hear the body, we hear the mind. And when we hear the mind, life changes. When we change inside. Everything changes outside. You have joy in your life. We don’t need to find bad feelings anymore. I don’t need to fight bad feelings anymore. So. What is I think is impressive is that even though I need to use one medication. But it’s the lowest dose, and I. I need to work with you to get out of this tube. Because I tend to go drug free. Because we never know which cases only have side effects, but we don’t know side effects for exercise. No, I never heard about that. We don’t have. It’s only good things. It brings only good things to everyone. No bad effects about health diets. No, no side effects. No. You see? Yeah.

Clint – People think the side effects are a not very enjoyable foods. But you love your foods, right?

Erika – Well, to be very honest, I don’t care too much. I I’m not a big person. Uh, I don’t have craving. I, I can go to Paris to barbecue, Brazilian barbecue. No problem. I usually pack my food, or I myself bring a food that I can eat, and others too. And, uh, the good thing that my friends, they are all very, um, helpful. No one comes to me and say, oh, to this or to that. They all understand. They are all very helpful. It’s a good friend. They all understand the importance of, um. Um, health.

Clint – It’s great. And the exercise? You’ve got dialed in, the supplements you’ve been taken for a long time. You’ve got the mental health stuff out of control. Brain clarity has come back. How’s the neuropathy? I didn’t circle back on that. Um, you know how you had all of those? The hospitalization event after you were on all of the drug combinations? Um, how is the extremities with feeling the natural sensations through your fingers and hands and things?

Erika – Well, um, I got to a neurologist, uh, in Brazil. Very good one. I like him. He said, um, that the problem is, Problems is because I have some damage in my, uh. Let’s say that’s fine. Yeah. It’s fine, it’s fine. And, uh. Uh. Uh, he can’t explain very well what happens about medication and the tingling, but he believes that this tingling sensation is due to this damage. And that’s what he told me to do. Exercise. To say that I should do exercise to strengthen my muscles here. To help support his spine. You see?

Clint – Good. Okay. Well, we’ve got that covered. Um, you mentioned the Rinvoq. Um, yes. Our story. Sort of. We sort of somehow missed that. That happened around about the same time that you and I first spoke in Brazil. I agreed that that was a good thing to do. Your inflammation was really high, and it made sense when you’ve got, uh, Celebrex and five milligrams of steroid as your only drugs, being not a good long term combination, and you just come dramatically off and, and methotrexate quickly to have some kind of drug to do some heavy lifting in place whilst we did all our work together. And so we saw that as a nice substitution. In fact, you would possibly argue an a lesser replacement than Enbrel plus methotrexate, but it just needed to be a more comparative starting point than dropping way down to just the steroids and the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. And so yes, we did start that around that same time. And uh, it does cloud the, the, uh, the story. But, uh, you know, to the extent that you’d struggled with medications in the past and the mountain that needed to be climbed even with that drug, um, you know, it’s a phenomenal outcome. And yeah, it is. And as you said, that’s the lowest dose of that drug. And you were sick recently. You said you didn’t take it for a while and nothing happened.

Speaker4 – Yeah.

Erika – And now the difference now that I’m not more in the dark, uh, every time I feel some joint is crying, I know that I have to exercise. And the next day it’ll be all are good. It’s incredible, isn’t it? I think this kind of feeling happy. I don’t know. There’s no medicine for that. No drugs will do that.

Clint – That’s right. You have this sense of control over your health. Like. Yeah, exactly. Controlling the puppet. You’re in control.

Erika – Yeah, because this disease puts us in a in a in fear, in worry and anxiety. And that’s just going to a vicious cycle. Yeah, we have to stop it, and we can’t change it.

Clint – I love it. We’ve got another six months together. We’d decided to continue our mission together. Um, and we’ve got a new target. And for those people who are thinking that there might be an anti-drug feeling. Not at all. Um, everything that Erica has done has been in collaboration with her rheumatologist. Uh, everyone that we work with, Erica and everyone else who’s on our coaching program. Uh, we work in collaboration with rheumatologists so that everyone’s on the same page. And rheumatologists are happy to make a medication taper. Yeah, a de-escalation when they see their patient’s blood results plummet in terms of inflammatory markers. Patient comes into the appointment feeling great, describing how much they’ve improved, more energy, more clarity of thought, strength. And rheumatologists are more than happy to work with patients who are.

Erika – Yeah. That excites me.

Clint – It does.

Erika – Yeah.

Erika – That’s very true. And I have to reinforce this that, uh. Yeah. It’s not, uh. Yeah. It’s not a crazy guy telling you to go out of drugs. It’s very responsible. Yeah, and every time I talk to my and my doctor, I confess I never enter into details of the Paddison program. But, yes, I. I didn’t stop the prednisolone or celecoxib Celebrex without talking to the doctors. They knew what I was doing. And he was, as you said, he was so happy. I was so surprised that he was so happy. He was laughing. He said, wow, I usually don’t see that. You were so happy.

Clint – Let’s keep making him happy. We we like doing that. Thank you. Eric, I really appreciate the time you’ve spent with us, and it’s been a pleasure to get to know you from six months, 6 or 7 months ago until now, and we’ve done some wonderful things together, and I’m looking forward to this next sort of 5 or 6 months together. And you’ve just done so well. Um, just to put my spin on this before we wrap this up, you know, you mentioned right from the start when we first spoke, I didn’t know this, but you were very skeptical. You felt that you already had a great diet. You felt you already were doing exercise. You had this for 20 years. You thought, how can this guy help me with his big claims on the internet, right? And then we got started. You put in the work, we stayed in contact regularly. You attended the weekly live calls regularly. You updated your success journal with with progress reports and your challenges. And yes, I did tell you, keep going, keep going. When you were working on your strength building, despite you being uncomfortable with some of that, and you shifted after about 2 or 3 months away from the one who or one of the people who needed encouragement to being someone who was encouraging to the group on the calls. And I think by four months or so you were hanging from a bar for like 30s. And we started talking about doing pull ups and whole bunch of wonderful stuff. And your diet expanded beautifully, um, your mood as you’ve described continually to, to improve. And it’s just been an absolute pleasure to witness everything that’s, that’s transpired together. So congratulations. You’ve put a lot of work in.

Erika – Thank you very much. It’s a success to be a great love you. Really great.

Clint – Thanks, Erica.

Erika – Congratulations. You too, for great work.