Chef AJ talks about her new book Chef AJ’s Sweet Indulgence – Guilt-Free Treats Sweetened Naturally with Fruit, and how these treats are compatible with the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid Arthritis.

We discuss in this interview:

• Chef AJ’s beginnings as a vegan pastry chef
• A book of oil-free and refined sugar-free recipes
• Photos and videos to support the content of the book
• How people on the Paddison Program can use the recipes
• Chef AJ’s YouTube channel, with over 2000 episodes
• Desserts and weight loss
• Vegan alternatives for foods
• Chef AJ’s entertainment background

Chef AJ Podcast

Clint – Today, you’re in for a treat literally. It’s because we’ve got Chef AJ, one of my favorite chefs and a good friend of mine, who is doing amazing things in the plant-based world on the show. We will talk about her new book that’s coming out shortly called, Chef AJ’s Sweet Indulgence – Guilt-Free Treats Sweetened Naturally with Fruit. Now, these treats will be able to be eaten if you’re following the program that we teach for rheumatoid arthritis. As long as you’ve graduated, you’d be able to eat these by healing your gut first. Let’s get into that shortly after we welcome, Chef AJ. How are you going?

Chef AJ – Hey Clint, thank you so much for having me on your show.

Clint – Oh, it’s exciting. I think we’ve only done one of these once before where you’ve been the guest and I’ve been the host. We’ve done a ton of the other way around where you’ve been the host and I’ve been the guest.

Chef AJ – Absolutely. I like being the host better because then I can talk less.

Clint – Well, I’m not going to let you off the hook today. You’re going to do a lot of the talking. We’re going to hear all about your new book. I’ve just given everyone the title and they’ve got an idea. What was the inspiration behind creating this new book?

Chef AJ – Well, the thing is I used to be a pastry chef, believe it or not, in the Los Angeles restaurant called Sante, I was the executive vegan pastry chef. However, it wasn’t a vegan restaurant, not an oil-free, or sugar-free. It’s just it so happens that my desserts were so to get the job, I just auditioned and I just went in. Then, I baked for a day and they said what they liked, and then they hired me. They had no clue for years that I wasn’t using oil, or I wasn’t using refined sugar or salt. Then, people have always wanted these recipes. Also, they wanted all my dessert recipes in one place. The main thing was, I’ve been hearing from people who have supported me for years like buying my books. They want a photo, and they don’t just want a few photos, They want a photo with every single recipe. When there are 156 recipes, it is no small feat to do that. I hired one of the most talented vegan authors food stylists, and photographers, Hannah Kaminsky, who’s a wonderful recipe creator and author in her own right. We finally delivered what the public demanded a photo with every single recipe.

Clint – I’m looking at the front cover and it looks decadent. Oh my gosh. If people head over to Amazon, there’s a preorder ability. The book launches on the 27th of August and it’s very soon. The front cover, what have we got there? What’s on that front cover?

Chef AJ – It’s funny that this made the cover. It was a coincidence because there were so many wonderful photos to choose from. Coincidentally, the foreword is written by Doctor Neal Barnard of PCRM, and this is his favorite recipe. This is what started our relationship as I had given him this cupcake once, and it worked out perfectly that this became the cover photo.

Clint – Yeah, lovely. Now, our audience needs to watch their gut health because they’ve been through a nightmare, back with joint pains, and so on. They go through a process where they heal their gut using specific fibers. exercise, optimizing the omega 6 to 3 ratio to help reduce inflammation, etc. We are a delicate bunch.

Chef AJ – I hear that from a lot of people with different autoimmune conditions, for example.

Clint – Yeah. Here’s my question. Are these recipes oil-free?

Chef AJ – Yes, it’s oil-free. I have not knowingly consumed oil. If you’re somebody’s house or a restaurant, I don’t know, but I’ve not intentionally consumed oil or used it since I first really heard from Doctor Caldwell Esselstyn in a lecture about becoming heart attack proof and how deleterious oil was to your cardiovascular health in general, and your waistline in particular. I haven’t consumed or used oil in any cooking since August 1st, 2008. Thus, none of my recipes have oil. Not a drop, not a morsel, not a crumb, and I can 100% assure you that. However, some recipes are a little bit richer and decadent, so they will have whole food fats. There are a few recipes that have avocado, a few that have seeds, and a few that have nuts or nut butter. However, there are a lot of them that have no added fats and that is very low in fat and low in calorie density as well.

Clint – Yeah. That’s brilliant. Okay, I just want everyone to know that as long as you’re following our program and you’ve been through the first three groups. That’s group A, group B, and Group C on the reintroduction guide. Then, you’ll be able to try every one of these recipes in Chef AJ’s incredible 150 recipe book. Can you give us some examples of some of the recipes?

Chef AJ – Absolutely. What I’m trying to find, and I should have opened it to this page before. We rate each recipe based on sweetness, whether they’re superbly sweet, moderately sweet, or subtly sweet. Then, how much fat they have, whether they have more fat, less fat, or no added fat. Thus, people can mix and match. Some decadent recipes have things like nut butter and chocolate in them. However, other recipes are made from fruit, not even dates like bananas sweet potatoes, or apples, for example.

Clint – Awesome. I know Melissa’s going to get your book. Our kids whenever they have birthday parties, always get a Melissa special. It’s usually something like you’ve got here. Maybe she can do 2 or 3 things where it’s, as you said, really decadent. The other kids at the party don’t even realize that it’s vegan and no oil. She uses some things like zucchini sometimes as a replacement for some common ingredients. Thus, she’s going to love this.

Chef AJ – Here’s the thing. We wrote each recipe and this was brilliant. My book designer, Janine Elder, who’s of Potato Wisdom, did this sweetness scale with the strawberries. Then, one strawberry means subtly sweet people eating the standard American diet may not even find it sweet enough. Two strawberries mean, nice and sweet, which is like perfect for my palate and many people’s palate. Three strawberries are superbly sweet, so these would be just like the recipes that you’re used to in the standard American diet with the fat. They’re either low-fat or semi-decadent, which has a moderate amount of fat, or rich and decadent, which would be like your traditional desserts. Thus, people can mix and match. In addition to being oil-free, I’m not sure that matters so much to the general population because I’m hoping people other than vegans and plant-based eaters will buy the book. It is free of refined sugar, so it’s sweetened with the fruits and nothing but the whole fruit. People who may never decide to become vegan for whatever reason are avoiding refined sugar. They may be able to enjoy these recipes that are sweetened with things like dates, bananas, sweet potatoes, apples, and things like that.

Clint – It does sound like the perfect fit for our audience who have done the hard work. They’ve been through the healing process. They’re at the end, and now they think, what can I have like once or twice a week? Just as a little treat that feels indulgent and that’s not going to set me back. It’s not going to cause joint pain and it’s not going to ruin my gut. You’ve got whole foods, there is no oil and no salt.

Chef AJ – No salt. Honestly, of the 156 or 154, only two recipes have flour.

Clint – Wow.

Chef AJ – Do you want to hear something funny, Clint?

Clint – I’m sorry, go ahead.

Chef AJ – Okay, you know what Doctor Goldhamer wanted me to call the book, but the publisher said no. He wanted me to call it, Deserts That Won’t Kill You.

Speaker4 – I love it, Doctor Goldhamer is always good for a laugh, isn’t he?

Chef AJ – I wish he would stand up with us one day because he’s a natural.

Clint – All right. Are you going to do a book tour or how can people sort of other than buying it on Amazon? Can they meet you in person? Are you touring this around?

Chef AJ – Yes, you can. I just wish I could be in more places. I’ve already done my first job, which was in the Finger Lakes, which was just beautiful. If they go to www.chefaj.com, they’ll get on my mailing list and I’ll tell them where I’m going to be. I’m going to be at Rancho La Puerta in Mexico, which is an amazing spot where I teach hands-on cooking. Then, I will be going to New Jersey for one of the wonderful plant-based events of Doctor Ron Weiss of Farm Days, and I’ll be doing recipes from the book. Then, I’ll be going to the Plantrician Conference, which will take place this year in Orange County, California. Then, I will be headed out to Los Angeles, where I’m originally from. I’ll be at the South Bay Adventist Church and I will be doing a dessert demo. That’s on a Sunday, October 6th, and they can taste three samples of my recipes. Then, I’ll be at Stanford Inn Mendocino, which is an amazing place. It’s a vegan inn where you can bring your dog. Then, I’ll be at True North for a few weeks, and that’s what I’ve got planned so far.

Clint – Yeah, amazing. What has been different about creating this book for you from all your other books? It’s because you’ve got many books. How has this one felt different and excited you?

Chef AJ – A lot more to produce because people don’t realize color photos, to be styled, to have the recipe made, to be lit, to be edited, and that’s a lot of money. To do that, for every recipe, it took a long time to make. Let me tell you what took even longer and this might interest anybody interested in learning how to make desserts. I shot a video of every single recipe in the book, and that’s only available as what we call a pre-order bonus or pre-sale bonus. If people buy the book before the deadline of New York Times Best Seller, which is midnight on Saturday, August 31st. Thus, they could have bought it months ago, they can buy it now as long as they buy it before that date. Save their receipt and send it to us through a form we have at a special website called, www.sweetindulgencebook.com. They will get a video of every single recipe, and that’s worth over $1,000 because I include my Sweet Indulgence Master Dessert class, which actually when people took it, sold for $600. Thus, it’s a pretty sweet deal and it took about a year to get everything ready.

Clint – Someone filmed you doing the prep for every one of these?

Chef AJ – Absolutely, not only did he film me, he had to edit it too. We didn’t have to film every recipe or we didn’t want to have you watch with bacon in the oven for 45 minutes, but absolutely. You’ll have a video for every recipe so you can follow. It’s like having me in your kitchen.

Clint – Yeah. That’s incredible and that’s amazing. Also, it’s very pioneering because I’ve never heard of anyone doing this before. Was this your idea?

Chef AJ – Yes and no. I mean, other people have done it. I know that Debbie Adler did it for her book, The Mediterranean Plate. However, I don’t know if anybody’s ever done it for a dessert cookbook, maybe I’m the first.

Clint – Tell us about the New York Times best-seller, as a complete newbie to this?

Chef AJ – It’s something you can put in your signature at the end of the day. It’s not like I’m going to put it on my tombstone because I’ll probably end up being cremated. It’s an honor and it just means that there are books that sell more than New York Times bestsellers. With the New York Times best-seller, all they care about is pre-sales in those first five days. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have the most successful book that didn’t make the list. It’s just something we have mutual friends like Robby and Cyrus, and Doctor Joel Fuhrman made the list. It’s prestigious and it’s not easy to do. That’s what I’m told, so we’re trying.

Clint – I can imagine. Do the Amazon sales somehow get reported?

Chef AJ – This is not my wheelhouse. Robert Cheeke knows more about this than anyone else because he became a New York Times bestseller with one of his books, The Plant-Based Athlete. However, the pre-sales have to be from different places. Let’s just say I had a ton of money and bought 20,000 books on Amazon. It has to come from different sources, it has to come from Amazon as well as small boutique houses like a seat at the table where if people buy it there. They can get it two days early and sign places like Barnes and Noble. Also, the thing that I’ll never understand is that the bookstore you buy it at has to be a New York Times reporting bookstore. They don’t, you know, people that have much bigger followings that have publicists. They know a lot more about this than I do. With our small little team, we’re trying to get the word out to get people to buy it in advance. I mean, if they’re going to buy it, if they’re not going to buy it, don’t buy it. However, if you’re going to buy it, why not buy it in advance and get the incredible bonuses we’re offering? That’s what I think.

Clint – Exactly, that’s that’s a huge drawcard. I want to see how to make these meals because if you’re struggling at home and you don’t do too much cooking, that’ll make things so straightforward. What are you most excited about with regards to what’s coming for everyone that they can now pre-order on Amazon?

Chef AJ – I mean, I think that they’ll be very happy that they can be at a place in their life where they don’t have to permanently desert. Some options are so healthy and they’re like eating oatmeal for breakfast. The way I configure it into a pie, I mean, you could have your oatmeal and fruit for breakfast and it’s very healthy and delicious. You can also have my rustic strawberry pie, which is also oatmeal and fruit, but it looks like a tart.

Clint – Yeah, awesome. Anything else about this? I mean, it just sounds like a no-brainer for my audience. If you’ve been following this channel or listening to this podcast for some time, this is the first opportunity that I’ve ever presented through one of my guests or any of our materials. This is where you’ve got wonderful, and delicious whole food. However, except for just two recipes out of the 150 or so completely whole food delicious treat that includes fiber with no oil. It doesn’t get much better than this. Why don’t we get behind Chef AJ, and support her and her mission here to spread the plant-based message? Then, keep people healthy and get this book pre-ordered before the 27th of August, which gives you a little bit of time.

Chef AJ – They have until the 31st actually for it to count. The sooner, the better. However, most people in life do tend to procrastinate. Let’s say the 27th.

Clint – Let’s support you on this because this is amazing. Other than the book, which I think we’ve given good awareness to if anyone’s keen. They’ll be getting into it right now and going to the website and getting their copy. What else has been going on for you? I know you’ve been making some changes on the YouTube front. First of all, let’s also just take a moment to acknowledge the passing of Doctor McDougall. You and I didn’t speak beforehand, which was very heart-wrenching.

Chef AJ – It was devastating. In a lot of ways, he was the show. He was the heart of the show because he was one of the first guests to have a monthly slot. He was there the whole time, the whole four years and three months. Then, what was unique about Doctor McDougall was that I never told him to end. In other words, I would have these meetings every Monday and will tell them to be quiet. I’m like, why would I tell Doctor McDougall to be quiet? He’d go up for four hours and I am so grateful now that I listened to my intuition and just let the man talk. It is because now we have 51 wonderful episodes of him just speaking the truth. Yeah, that was hard and it still is hard because it’s quite unexpected.

Clint – Yeah. You and I have both met him many more times than myself. I was just struck by just how down-to-earth and personal he was and how he genuinely cared. When I met him, I was in Santa Rosa, isn’t it? Where true north is? He took time out of his schedule and rearranged some things to unexpectedly come by and meet me there. Then, I’ll sit down with myself and Doctor Klaper. The three of us just chatted for about half an hour about running businesses in the plant-based sphere, the challenges, and so on. It was a bit surreal that he’d come to meet me. I just felt very touched and I’ll never forget that, and that’s the sort of person that he was.

Clint – Your YouTube channel is running every single day, every single weekday for, you said over four years?

Chef AJ – Yeah, four years and three months with over 2000 episodes. When I look back, it’s like, how did I do that? Now, I’m not doing a show every day. The two days a week I do the show. It’s like, oh my God, I got to get dressed, and I got to take a shower. Yet, I did it for, how many consecutive days from March 20th, 2020 to June 30th, 2024?

Clint – Wow. However, the impact that you had, I mean, you just reached so many people.

Chef AJ – Yeah, I didn’t set out to have a YouTube show or to certainly broadcast every day. However, it became a show or a daily thing, I got so many people who wanted to be on. I just didn’t want to say no to anybody in the plant-based space who wanted a chance to tell people what they were doing.

Clint – What do you think the biggest impact of that was?

Chef AJ – Well, that’s a good question. I think it gave people maybe the confidence sometimes to start their channels because they needed a break. It’s because sometimes it’s scary to start on your own. They had some practice maybe coming on my channel and they saw that people liked them and they resonated with what they said. Thus, it led them to do greater things sooner than they would have if they hadn’t come on the show.

Clint – With the extra time that you’ve got now that you’ve reduced your YouTube.

Chef AJ – No, extra time. You are so a comedian and I thought that too. I’m going to have all this time but that old saying it’s like if it filled up right away. I don’t want to say what I’m doing now I like better, but what I’m doing now I feel is a better fit. I love hosting and I feel I do a good job. At the end of the day, my name is Chef AJ, not Host AJ. Now, I’m back in the kitchen making recipes and teaching people how to cook. It’s where my heart is because I’ve been cooking since I was seven years old, almost 60 years now. For me, it’s not hard because I’ve been doing it so long. However, I feel like, when I teach things like weight loss, for example, there’s recidivism. I’m sure even in your program you teach the best program. However, it’s not always easy to do all the time. However, with cooking, I feel like I can make somebody a good chef or a great chef. I feel especially because of all the experience I had teaching the blind. If you’re sighted, it’s going to be a lot easier for you to learn how to cook, right? I feel cooking is just so fun and it’s not sad. I’m not talking about anything sad and it’s just, especially dessert. I mean, dessert makes people happy, let’s face it, right? I would hope it does.

Clint – You’ve done this delicate tightrope walk here of being in the weight loss sphere, being a leader in the weight loss area, and yet creating a decadent.

Chef AJ – Yeah, tell me about it. Some people feel I betrayed them. Here’s the thing I hear from people all the time. If somebody can just make a decision that they’re never going to eat dessert again, that is fantastic. I just don’t know too many people that have been able to permanently desert. I’ve seen in all the years teaching the ultimate weight loss program and the reboot program, is that eventually, most people fall off occasionally. What are they falling off to do? I want them to fall off to Baskin-Robbins or McDonald’s. Do I want them to maybe fall off to a dessert that’s date or nut-sweetened, which, even though it may be a little bit more calorically dense than eating an apple? At least, it has water, fiber, vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, antioxidants, and micronutrients. I feel like they’ll get greater satiety than if they eat a traditional Krispy Kreme donut or a Cinnabon. The other thing to consider is that a lot of the people I work with, and maybe you too, they’re mixed relationships. They may be the only one in their family that’s vegan, the only one that’s oil-free or sugar-free. These desserts can be enjoyed by people, whether they’re oil-free or sugar-free vegan. They’re also gluten-free and that helps people who have that particular thing. It’s just I wanted to come up with this book in 2012 right after unprocessed. I’m glad I didn’t because by waiting I created a lot more recipes. Also, I proved that I could lose weight. Now, I did not eat the peanut butter cupcake on the cover to lose the 60 lb that I’ve kept off for like ten years now. However, a lot of the recipes in the book I did eat to lose weight. For example, the blueberry muffin, the jam bars and I still eat. Do I eat dessert every day? Every meal? Everyday? No. However, I have it as an option for when I want it. It’s interesting because of the impact of eating these desserts, even the ones that are date-sweetened. It is so different than when you eat white sugar. You don’t have the constant cravings. You’re satisfied with a reasonable-sized piece because you experience satiety from the water and fiber. The years I was a sugar addict till the age of 43, drinking Coke Slurpee’s for breakfast with eight pumps of vanilla syrup and Doctor Pepper. Also, big gulps at the end of the day. Now, if I’m still a little bit hungry after dinner and I want to eat a little more, I’d rather eat chips and salsa. By the way, there is a chips and salsa recipe in the dessert book, but it’s a strawberry salsa.

Clint – Okay, I just want to rewind a little bit at the start. You mentioned that you started as the pastry chef and you auditioned for that role and were successful in getting it. Why at the time were you secretly making everything vegan and nobody knew? Were you right from a young age interested in plant-based or vegan? How did this evolve and why?

Chef AJ – I wasn’t secretly making it vegan like they weren’t there watching me not put the egg or put the oil in. I just cooked the way I knew how. I became vegan at the age of 17 and that was 47 years ago. I started baking at the age of seven because I got an Easy-Bake oven. You can’t call that baking though, because they came with these little mixes. All you did was add water and you put it in and this little light bulb would cook it. However, I wasn’t secretly making it vegan. I was just making it the way I knew and it happened to be vegan. Think about it, Clint. like people who love meat. I don’t know much about the analogs. I’ve tasted a few things from Michael Psyllium and it tasted just like meat to me and it was freaky. However, a lot of people insist on eating animal products. Who knows, maybe they’ll eat the Impossible Burger or the Beyond Burger or even tempeh or tofu, but they may know the difference. I guarantee that you could make a German chocolate cake with eggs and butter, and I’ll give you mine. I would venture to say that nobody would say, this one has the egg and you know you can’t. Desserts are such a great way to enroll people into plant-based eating. It is because then you’re not relying on the egg and the butter for the flavor like you are. If people want a steak, maybe you can make a fake steak, but I’m not making a fake German chocolate cake. I’m making a real German chocolate cake in honor of Hans Diehl, another one of our wonderful doctors who we lost this last year.

Clint – That point about bringing people into the plant-based world via treats who are otherwise out eating anything. I think that is a good one because when the children at again, coming back to our experience with treats at kids’ birthday parties. When the children experience my wife’s cupcakes or the main birthday cake and they realize there are no eggs, no oil. Then, they would love it and it suddenly makes them feel like, I can do vegan. Like that’s their exposure to veganism is just the cake. Then they say, I want to be vegan. Some of them have said that like, just because they’ve had something that they consider the pinnacle of their existence, which is a treat as a kid. Also, it doesn’t require any animal products. I think that’s a huge revelation and I think that’s a great insight.

Chef AJ – Absolutely. I mean, even the thing that people would think that understand cooking and baking. They are thinking that you can’t make a meringue without egg whites because that’s how I was taught in the seventh grade of home economics. You whip the egg white and cream of tartar to make a meringue. Well, somebody figured out aquafaba. I think that I would venture to say this is with all food. Since I’m the pastry chef, I’m just going to say it with dessert. I think that anything that anyone can make in the dessert world. I can make vegan and almost anything I can make healthier. I mean, I can’t promise 100% like a fried doughnut. Like if you had an apple fritter and fried it, it’s going to be the same. I’m pretty sure with enough time that I would be able to come up with something very close and vegan. Without that oil, sugar, and salt. The flour is really, believe it or not, maybe the hardest of all of it to take out in certain things if you’re looking for texture.

Clint – Awesome, very talented indeed. However, you’re not just talented at making these incredible sweets, recipes, and so on. I want people to know a little bit about your entertainment background. It is because I’m sure it doesn’t come up that much in interviews with you.

Chef AJ – It doesn’t unless they’ve watched my channel and seen me on The Tonight Show.

Clint – You set the platform. Hang on, give yourself a break. I know you don’t want to do all the talking, so let me set the platform here. You and I connected by talking about doing some stand-up comedy classes together that you introduced me to. This was after, I guess, we’d done a couple of interviews on your YouTube channel, and we’d bantered a little bit. Now, you’re extremely talented at stand-up and improv. You’ve been doing this for a very long time. You even performed more than once, I believe, on national US television live. You’ve taken classes with some of the best performed at some of the best clubs. Tell us, how did you get into this? First of all, how did this begin?

Speaker4 – Yeah. Okay.

Chef AJ – Let me rewind the clock to my showbiz history. When I was the first time I was on television, I was in high school and I was on the Gong Show. Do you know of the Gong Show? Have you heard of that show with Chuck Barris as the host? This was way before America’s Got Talent and Simon Cowell. This was like a show, I think I was 15 and you came on and you did like, a variety act. It might have been something like singing, but it could have been something outrageous. There were three judges I remember when I was maybe 14, I could have been younger. It was Jaye P. Morgan, Arte Simon, and Allen Ludden were the judges. I was on this show, The Gong Show. I was a bit early by the TV bug. When I was 14, I was on The Tonight Show with Joey Bishop. Joey Bishop was the guest host for Johnny Carson. I believe he took Mondays off or when he didn’t make it. I was 14 and I’m like, seeing myself on TV, and I just liked it. I didn’t have a lot of formal training until I was about 25. I did a couple of commercials one played during the Super Bowl. I mean, I never quite pursued it to the degree. I mean, now that I’m almost 65, it’s like, why didn’t try harder? People at some point have to make they don’t have to, but they want to make a living. They want to live indoors, showbiz is a very precarious thing. Yes, talent is important. However, there’s just this other piece the secret sauce. I think a lot of it has to do with sticking to itiveness. It is because I believe that whether it’s your program for reversing an autoimmune disease and healing the gut, or when I do weight loss programs or being successful in stand-up comedy. I think the underlying thread is to not give up if that is your dream. It is also because things don’t always happen at the same pace for people or as quickly as we want them. I think if you have some resiliency and consistency, you will have some success. Will everyone have 100% success in every area? Will everyone win an Academy Award? Will everyone have no symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis? Well, everyone gets down to their thinnest ideal weight. Maybe not and it’s still a possibility, but I think if you don’t give up. If you give up, you’re never going to reach the goal, right? I mean, that’s a given. I feel like it’s never too late and just keep trying if you love it. If you want it and I haven’t given up yet. I mean, I still have to work, but anytime there’s an opportunity to take a class or do a show, I’m in because it’s I think it’s so fun. It is so fun to do comedy. I mean, making people laugh is the greatest gift in the world.

Clint – You and I are both blessed with two areas of contribution, which is making people laugh. It is because for anyone who doesn’t know, I’ve been doing stand-up for 23 years and I worked last weekend. I’m regularly still doing this, although at a much, much-reduced output. It is because I have my other thing like you, a calling and a gift or knowledge skills to help people with a specific problem for their health. You and I have privately talked about how we and quiet but that is something we’d love to be doing more. Then, this feels like more contribution and it gets you pulled in. I guess also a requirement to put food on the table and to pay for the mortgage or whatever it might be, and reality has to kick in. I think you and I both flip-flop between where we think our attention should be. Also, you have some regrets from the past as well. Like, I was getting on TV a little bit and then suddenly rheumatoid arthritis hit me. Then, I couldn’t write jokes because I couldn’t hold a pen and I couldn’t get on stage. One time I had to get helped onto the stage to stand. These things come into our lives and you think. Well, what is the bigger purpose of my life? Is it just to become well-known and make a living traveling around telling jokes? Is it changing people’s lives with their health, whether it be through diet, cooking, and inspiring people with their weight and physical appearance or helping autoimmune conditions? It’s life’s interesting like that. We don’t know, do we? We just go with our intuition and where I guess we feel we’re most suited.

Chef AJ – Absolutely. You never know where the where the wind is going to blow you. I was already thinking. You got me thinking in the comedy vein when you said you couldn’t hold a pen to write a joke, and I was already thinking, that’s almost a joke right there.

Clint – Well, this is what we’ve talked about, isn’t it? When we’re in the comedy classes together?

Clint – It’s funny that you say that because I enjoy being in the class as much as performing, maybe even more. It is because I think it’s it’s not so much that, look how funny I am or maybe you’re paying me. It’s the creative process and it’s coming up with that joke. That is what I love more than anything and that’s why I love improv. In improv, you get many opportunities in performance to come up with something you know and you don’t. You only have to do it once and that’s because I’m lazy.

Clint – You’ve done stand-up at some of the health conferences that you’ve attended in the past, haven’t you?

Chef AJ – Well, I don’t call it stand-up. I call it hosting, right? I even did it in Cuca. I mean, because it sounds better to say, hey, would you like to hire me to host? Then, the stand-up just kind of gets mingled in, especially when there are delays. I always or it’s always in my back pocket. I think I’m a good host because I don’t make it about me. If we’re running not on time, it’s like I’m hurting it along. When there are those breaks and the AV isn’t working, I can riff. I love riffing and that’s my favorite thing. For the Plantrician conference last year, they hired me for this instead. At first, I thought I was not doing a plenary for me. Then I thought, oh my God, this is even better. This was a separate class for CEUs for like 100 healthcare people, like doctors, pharmacists, and nurses. They had to pay like $125 extra to get these CEUs. It was like it was like working a cabaret and I was cooking too. I’ll tell you exactly this and I forgot about this guy Edward. God bless him. In the year 2000, there was a vegan cooking school in Santa Monica, not far from where I lived. It was founded by Ryan Flegel, who now has a resort on one of the islands where he has a vegan bed and breakfast. However, he was like 18 or 19, a college student at Santa Monica College at the time. Then, he founded this cooking school called Dick and Jane Cook Vegetarian on Pico. He had all the great chefs at the time come there, like the people that had the restaurants in LA, like Akasha Richmond, who was Michael Jackson’s chef and owns Akasha. Also, David Spain from Follow Your Heart and Tanya Petrovna from Native Foods. Then, I would take these classes and they were so inexpensive. It was $25 for three hours on a Saturday morning, and it would include a full meal. Then, I was always a class clown. I was always a smart Alec and I would be in the back just like cracking jokes and stuff. Edward, who was organizing the school, he said, why don’t you teach? Then I’m like, okay. It is because I felt even though I hadn’t gone to culinary school yet. I could teach cooking, I believe because I write about this in my book. After all, there’s a little bit of story with all these recipes that in high school, we used to have to do for Mr.Smith’s honors English class. We used to have to do something called how-to-do-it projects. It was like, I guess it was to train us to be concise or to be better speakers. People would say like, this is how you build like a nuclear reactor, this is how you build a rocket, or this is how you do electronics. Whatever, all these scientific things. I’m like, this is how you make fudge. Then, Edward called the classes, Vegan Cooking for Health and Good Looking. Then, the other thing that people maybe don’t realize. I’m not going to do this on YouTube because when I would get a copyright strike because these are not my melodies. I used to want to be a songwriter, and I spent some time in Nashville so I could write lyrics. I can’t write music, so I do a lot of song parodies of other people’s songs. I don’t do these on YouTube because like I say, I’ll get whatever it’s called. Also, singing on YouTube is difficult, but when I do these live performances, I’ll do these song parodies in between. I think performing live is much more fun than performing on Zoom.

Clint – Love it, love it. You’re just an absolute ball of energy with so many skills in so many areas. It’s always fun hanging out with you. I hope that people enjoyed listening to you once more and had fun spending time with you on this episode. Everyone, go support Chef AJ, head over to grab yourself a copy of this awesome Sweet Indulgence new book that’s now available. If you preorder before the 31st of August, this will assist her with maybe getting into that New York Times best seller. Chef AJ thank you so much.

Chef AJ – Thank you, Clint. Thanks for what you do. I hope we get to be in a class again soon.