In addition to rheumatoid arthritis, Heidi has got Hashimoto’s and has recovered from breast cancer: nevertheless, with the Paddison Program she is no longer needing methotrexate for her symptoms control.

We discuss in this interview:

• How Heidi stayed for ten years with very high RA markers and no symptoms
• Her first experience with methotrexate, and dropping it when she had to begin chemotherapy
• How she came to know about the Paddison Program through Clint’s TEDx talk
• Immediate results after the two-day cleanse
• Exercise and the importance of persistence
• Removing the toxic load from our body
• Oregano and other natural antibiotic
• Cancer and diet
• Percy’s Powder supplement
• Avoiding vegan junk food
• Green smoothies
• Zinzino oil and other supplements

Clint – Today’s guest is Heidi, and she comes from a little country town in New South Wales, which is a state of Australia. And her little country town is around about probably 2 to 3 hours north of Sydney where I am at the moment. She has a great story to share with us of her rheumatoid arthritis improvements and she is now no longer needing methotrexate for her symptoms control. She’s also got Hashimoto’s, another autoimmune disease and we’re going to talk about how that has responded to her lifestyle changes as well. She’s also a recovered from breast cancer back in 2019. So she’s had lots of challenges, but she is a happy, chirpy, enthusiastic guest, and I can’t wait to hear her story because I have very little knowledge of it. And so here we have Heidi to share today. And I’m really excited. Thanks, Heidi, for coming on this episode.

Heidi – My pleasure. It’s such a privilege to be able to share the story because I know when I started, I got so much encouragement from hearing other people’s stories and gleaning all that knowledge. So I’m happy to be able to share mine. Um, so my story started when I was late 20’s as it is for many women with the first pregnancy, I thought I’d done too much cross-stitch and know that stiffness in the fingers was rheumatoid arthritis. My doctor said, don’t Google it, you’ll scare yourself just take the medication. He put me on Brufen, which later was to realise is pretty much a double Nurofen. And so I was on that for about six months and then saw a naturopath, they put me on rose hip tea and some other things. But long story short, I had three children and subsequent pregnancies can take the pain away for whatever reason. After the third child, my symptoms never return. So I was in Townsville and I told my doctor I’ve got RA, but I don’t have any symptoms. So she tested my blood and said, your RA markers are through the roof, I’m sending you to a specialist. So you pay the big money, you go to the specialist and he explains your disease as best he knows. Yeah, I said I don’t have any pain, and he pretty much said, Good for you, come back when you do. I Wish you’d said a whole lot more, but that was it. And for the next ten years, I’m sure I had those high markers and absolutely no symptoms whatsoever. So what got me in the end was stress had a major stress event, and my doctor said, you’re going to fall in a heap if you don’t get to a rheumatoid arthritis specialist. I actually had forgotten I had rheumatoid arthritis. I was getting pain in my wrists and I’d Googled it and I thought I was getting carpal tunnel. So I saw a specialist, he put me on methotrexate, I have a friend who’s a nurse, and she said methotrexate causes cancer. And I’m like, Oh, you’re in the back of your mind. And had a couple of chemists, when you pick up your script going, you realize that’s a really hard drug. And I’m like, Yeah, you’ve just taken a really small dose of it and um, yeah, as soon as I got cancer diagnosis a couple of years later, I dropped the methotrexate like a bad smell, it was gone. I just dropped it and didn’t notice it because I went straight into chemotherapy, which was full blown. So didn’t have any pain associated to dropping the methotrexate until after treatment.

Heidi – And then wrists and feet became a problem. So, um, after my last surgery, I was in very bad muscle pain, I couldn’t lift my arms above my head like I can easily do now. So taking a jumper off, you’ve got to grab it and hold your body in half. I was going to say get a really good I’ve had a couple of really good fitness workouts just trying to get a jumper off because it’s so hard. Yeah, but stiffness fibromyalgia came up when I googled symptoms and I had pain in my feet. I was limping at work and I was just bemoaning the fact that I was in such a bad way. Let me just check. Um, yeah. So I came across a product on Facebook called Heal and Sue, and I’ve learnt that a lot of these supplements are no good. And if you go to the comments, you’ll hear all the people say they’re no good. But people also discussed their disease, express their frustration, share their tricks. And someone had written Clint Paddison fixed my wife and hundreds of others and they left a link to your TED Talk. So I couldn’t resist and I clicked on that and I watched the TED talk. And your story was my story down to the I had a knee that kept blowing up. I’d take steroids, it’d go down. Three weeks later, it would blow up again. So this went round and round about six times, I was just really frustrated. My wrists were so weak that sometimes I couldn’t even wipe my backside properly. And that’s very humiliating and frustrating and didn’t want to go on the hard drugs. I’d said to my rheumatologist, I want to be off those drugs. And he said, Why? You’re not having side effects and they’re doing the job. I’ve got other drugs if you want to have a look at those. But I asked him, is there a natural thing I can do? And he said, no the studies just show that taking a fish oil tablet can make a difference. I asked about an anti-inflammatory diet and he said, no, the literature doesn’t say anything. So yeah. How wrong was he? I haven’t seen him for a few years now. Um, yeah.

Heidi – So I thought of two things when I saw that presentation of yours, I thought he knows and I thought, I don’t care what it is, I’m doing it because there you were with all the symptoms I had, including the jaw. I didn’t know people knew about the sore jaw. And there you were, walking around on the stage with ease. You know, you had your moment with the run. I used to be a cross-country runner as a young person, so I really related to the desire to want to run again. Um, so, yeah, I dived in. I noticed on YouTube it had Clint Paddison day one, day three. So I went straight on to the cucumber and celery juice and yeah, bought your program and yeah, the rest is history. I had a diary, I recorded everything I was doing in the diary every day and I was just determined, Um, I got excited about the blood test. I took your food sheet to my doctor and told her what I was doing, she was very supportive. And when I was in the waiting room afterwards, she, the receptionist said, Oh, can Dr. Morris Have a copy of that list? And I’m like, Sure, no, thought Clint won’t mind. And in one of my recent appointments, she said, I told another one of my patients about Clint Paddison’s program and they were skeptical at first that they’re getting amazing results. So it’s really nice to see it paid forward and someone else benefiting, um, because I actually felt angry once all my symptoms just melted away, I was able to walk nearly instantly. I was doing my exercises, a 50 minute walk each day with a view to wanting to run and did get to the point where I start with a little cliff young shuffle and build it up.

Heidi – So I’d call it my hundred steps and every ten steps I’ll lift a little bit. So that by the time I’m in the 60, 70’s and 80’s I’m full stretch and it feels so free to just be able to run when you haven’t been able to run for a while. Another thing was going to mention with that too, was when I started running, it felt like gravity was twice as strong or my shoes were made of concrete or someone was holding the back of my shirt. It was just it felt like a massive effort to move like that. But I persisted with it, and over time, that melted away and running became how I remembered it to be. So I’m really pleased with that. And I’ve got an exercise bike in front of the TV, that’s my other form of exercise if I’m not out running. The knee has never blown up since, the sore jaw went away. I had tonsils that had been enlarged. A friend of mine was telling me that she had large tonsils and I’m like, Yeah, mine have been up for over a year. And I said, look. And I opened my mouth and she said, Oh, they didn’t look very big. I went home and had a look and they’d gone down, had scars from the breast cancer surgery and they faded away to nearly nothing. So everything that had been going wrong in my body just went right. So you get that sense that your body’s not coping, it’s not coping with the toxic load. But if you can give it the upper hand, then all of a sudden it can do its job. Because when I was told that my immune system was malfunctioning, I reasoned that if I ate healthy food, I’m just giving it more power to malfunction, and that was a really wrong line of thinking. So I actually had an odd reaction to healing. I felt angry because I’m thinking like, you had been around for eight years before I found you. And I’m thinking, if this knowledge is known, why is it that who’s not listening? Like who puts the curriculum together for rheumatoid arthritis specialists, and why aren’t they getting this? You know, it’s life-changing. I’ve gone from feeling very debilitated, felt like a little 80 year old woman every morning when I got up and hobbled until I loosened up and got better. It’s chalk and cheese, I had a lot to gain by doing your program and certainly got that.

Clint – That’s fantastic. So you mentioned so many great things there. I’m just wondering which one to touch upon first. What about we go back to where you said that you felt like my story was your story? Can I also infer that perhaps you took antibiotics as a teenager, or is it perhaps that you, um, like, did you ponder on why you were more vulnerable to rheumatoid?

Heidi – With the cancer I did genetic testing and they found that I have an ATM gene mutation. So my family has a lot of autoimmune, my sister has ulcerative colitis, my niece has type one diabetes, my sister’s son has lean toward celiac. So we are a little bit more prone to malfunction. So I believe mine has probably come from that, a little bit of antibiotics. My last surgery with the breast cancer, um, fell at the last hurdle. I had a big infection with that put me in hospital for ten days and I was on strong antibiotics for about eight weeks. So no wonder I was in so much pain when I came across your program because I’d just had a mega hit. I nearly lost the breast implant, but I took oregano, I took it like an antibiotic. I took it three times a day, about ten leaves. And yeah, my surgeon bought an oregano plant when she saw my blood at the end of the week because everything was googled natural antibiotic, ginger, garlic, the whole bit. Cinnamon. Honey manuka honey. Yeah.

Clint – Oh, wow. That’s fantastic. Let’s come back to that. Um, or why don’t we, whilst it’s on your mind and you’re on a roll with it, you said that in your research you found that the oregano and now for our US friends oregano and I live with one I know, I know.

Heidi – My children teases me if I pronounce it that way.

Clint – Right, and you mentioned the obvious, the garlic, the onions. We know that they are a natural, and what I love about this so people aren’t concerned about this. It is a selective antibiotic, it does not affect our commensal healthy microbes. It only affects those that are pathogenic, which is just superb. Right. So that is different from conventional or allopathic antibiotics, which are non-discretionary, they just take out good and bad bacteria. So if you’ve got a selective nature’s antibiotic. Now, of course, there are going to be some limits to how effective these natural options are. And if you’re in dire straits, you want to be taking the right medication from the doctor. But in parallel, it looks like this has really accelerated your response.

Heidi – Yeah, very much so. Yeah.

Clint – Can you list them again for us?

Heidi – I think it was ginger, garlic, turmeric, cinnamon, oregano was the big one. I was taking it predominantly, I just googled natural antibiotic and pretty much was mindful to take all of them because I didn’t want to go back into surgery and another big drama. So it was nice for me, we went from one week to two weeks, two weeks to three, and after 4 or 5 weeks we’re like, Yep, okay, we’re good. That’s when I came across your program and started that journey. What I love about your program is it takes you from where you are and gets you to where you need to be. You don’t like would have said that I had very healthy diet before doing your program, but I’ve got Dutch heritage, vegetarian influence has a lot of cheese and eggs and loved a good toasted sandwich. So a lot of the stuff that I was having is stuff that I later realized was was all no no’s.

Clint – You mentioned something about the genes and you mentioned the family sort of response to digestive related disorders like celiac, ulcerative colitis. Now, if Dr. McDougall suddenly stepped into my body, he would say he would say, Heidi, that’s cause you’re all on the same diet, your family’s all eating the same food. Forgive the awful accent. But, you know, do you think that the that the commonality of the food was a large factor here? I mean, the evidence would suggest that that plays a greater role than the genes themselves. Would you say that you had a like a country steak and eggs upbringing, as you said, with some Dutch cheese and and all of this going on?

Heidi – We had dairy cows as a kid, we had milk with every meal. So remember when we were on the farm, we had chooks and we just had eggs, scrambled eggs was a common fill-in meal if we didn’t have anything else. So definitely it could play a part, but I can’t discount the genes too. My aunt died of pancreatic cancer, which was linked to it, and all my cousins have now been tested to see if they have it. My sister’s fighting cancer at the moment, so I’m trying to get her sold on the diet because yeah, when you just hear so many stories, because it’s a community that you’ve got set up here. But Brooke Goldner also pushes and has a community and Chris Walk, Chris beat cancer and I don’t know if you know Percy Weston story that’s another really good story Aussie farmer who cured. No tumors in his stomach. Yeah.

Clint – The first three I know very well. This the Percy person? I do not.

Heidi – So there’s a supplement called Percy’s Powder, and it’s got zinc, iron, manganese, selenium, all the trace elements. So they found that farming practices had stripped those from the soil and stock were getting his stock, were getting tumors. So he made supplements for them and cured them of their tumors. Then his neighbor got cancer, so he made the supplement for her and cured her of the cancer. Then his wife got cancer and she was told she could not have children. Her oncologist died before she did, and she had two kids and Percy lived to be 103. So and he advocated that you take his supplement on a vegan diet. And at the time I’d put a lot of emphasis on the supplement. Now I’m like, Oh yeah, he was putting forward the vegan diet. So, um, yeah, very much the plant based eating. Yeah. Because when I started your program was 30 days in and because you hadn’t put a label on it, I just went, Oh, I’ve been vegan for 30 days, but it wasn’t really because you can be a really naughty vegan. You just have to look at vegan sites, not can’t eat that too much oil, not can’t eat that too much sugar, not the wheat and breads and gluten. And so yeah, I did find that it was, um, it was good for me to use to have like a Epsom salt bath. And I would sit my laptop there and listen to previous podcasts that you had done and straight up you hammered the dairy nut Dairy is no good. And I counted six people in my life who have told me that. But I had discounted it each time. And now finally the penny dropped and I’m like, Oh, actually, yeah. Dairy is the one thing I actually do feel when I take it.

Clint – The protein in it, the casein protein in there is very allergenic. And so this is something that we’re just best off avoiding early. I used to have the checklist in my mind of like nine major reasons to avoid dairy and you know what, it just hasn’t come up for years, Heidi. It’s just weird. It’s like it’s I guess it’s so much more accepted so readily these days when you’ve got even communities like Carnivore, Paleo, Keto, and all these communities of which there are vast numbers of people. And because none of them have dairy either, it kind of has made newcomers to our program a little bit kind of really easy with the dairy topic. And so no one’s asked me about dairy in so long. I haven’t even looked at my notes on it. It’s so funny because it used to be one of the things I had to work. Now it’s like no one ever talks about it anymore.

Heidi – Yeah, no. And what was said when I heard it was it’s known, it’s just known that dairy is bad. And I’m like, okay, well then it’s known. The other one that caught me was bread when I started making sourdough oat sourdough. I didn’t feel a lot of pain eating it, but my markers jumped back up. So and I’ve heard of podcasts where it was like, Yeah, gluten is fairly well known as well. There’s a bit of a question mark over whether wheat is a problem because I’ll use spelt flour sometimes, Um, it’s got gluten in it, but yeah, yeah, I’m still playing around with that. There’s, yeah, a lot of trial and error.

Clint – So the extent of my knowledge of the literature on this is that gluten for the most part is more helpful than not helpful for people who can eat it without symptoms because gluten free diets and I read a whole book, I forget the name of the book, but it was laborious, all about gluten. And there was study after study after study and it just compared the microbiomes of people who consumed gluten to those who didn’t, the types of foods on a gluten free diet and how people end up tending towards unhealthier alternatives because they are avoiding gluten. So that might put them more towards a higher fat American Western diet because they’re now trying to get off anything that’s wheat product. And so in the end, I think of it in terms of a simple metaphor that it’s a challenge to the digestive system, the gluten. It’s a long chain, it’s harder to break down. So if you can like at the gym, put that extra plate on your barbell and press it. In other words, digest that gluten, then ultimately you have more strength in that part of your life, you are capable of more. However, if it starts to create injury, your body starts to not like that bench press, you’re noticing it Digestively. Then leave those plates off the end. But don’t go running towards chicken and beef and pigs and things thinking that that’s going to be the answer. No. Oh, and let me just add this, we’ve had people who have been, of course, there’s a difference between being gluten intolerant, like celiac, and gluten sensitivity. And those with gluten sensitivities who’ve been through our path in our community have been able to eliminate that as well. And so we can then develop the ability to then press that extra weight at the gym, you see. So, yeah, yeah.

Clint – So let’s pick your brains now. I was going to mention this earlier for people just so that they could get an idea of what we’re in for here. But I want to now just, let’s just like freestyle. What would you recommend to people? They’ve got these issues like you’re talking to friends, you’re talking to even family members about these matters. It’s on your mind, you’re passionate about it, you’ve got tremendous results. And just to underline that you don’t have any pain, do you now? And you’re not on any medications for this?

Heidi – No. Get stiff in my I call them my alarms. Get stiff in my right foot. It’s got bursitis on it and a cyst. So if I’ve been a bit eating something I shouldn’t have, those things are probably the first to flare up. I can be a little bit stiff in that foot if I’ve been sitting still. But I can really, most of the time get the lid off the jar without using the tool. And yeah, I was picking the frying pan up in one hand today and thinking, that’s so good to be able to do that. Didn’t used to be able to do that. So my general functioning is fairly feeling normal. Which is nice.

Clint – Yeah, it is very nice. Very nice. So let’s say you’re now we’re just over-listening or eavesdropping on you let’s say, telling someone else with rheumatoid arthritis, what are all the things that they need to do reel the details. What would you recommend?

Heidi – So with the prior like I spoke to some people, the lady doing the scan on my breast, she had freezing cold hands and said oh you’ve got autoimmune don’t you? And she said, yes I do. And we were talking diet and she said, Oh, I’m vegan. And I thought, it’s not enough. So when you do your programme, you say it’s a very narrow healing channel. You got to get in the healing groove and you got to stay there. So I would say go full ball or not at all. Like if you’re going to do it, do it boots and all. Because if you’re doing it 75% and you’re not quite in the healing groove, you’re not going to get any results. So you may as well, yeah, go hard, go hard or go home.

Clint – Yeah. Because as you mentioned before, you can be a junk food vegan. And whilst the ethical and the environmental impacts are fantastic, if we’re just focusing on our health, we must be maximising the output of our microbes, the short chain fatty acids, the amino acids, the hormones, the vitamins, the B vitamins. We’ve got to make that microbiome absolutely hum. And we can’t do that if we’re eating junk food that falls within a vegan category. We’re just not. So love it. That’s a great tip. What else have you got for us?

Heidi – I’m a big advocate for the green smoothie. Brooke Goldner inspired me to want to do the smoothies, and they’re delicious. And as I’m doing them, I’m thinking, this is this is what Clint’s always saying get more and more greens in. I’m an avid gardener, I love gardening, so I plant as many different variety of greens as I can have a constant turnover so I can shred it up and put it in pretty much everything I’m eating. But the green smoothie gives you such a boost of energy like it’s and it’s pure, you know, you’re not having anything in that’s going to stir you up. Whereas I discovered how to make a good pizza about a week ago, and I’ve been eating pizza all week. Yes, I have. And probably for another one to come, They’re delicious. But I’m questioning is that plant based yogurt that I’m using in the base? Is that one the best one or the other one? So there’s a bit more discovery once you get to the more advanced foods.

Clint – What’s your favorite smoothie or what are you, what are some that you just continually go back to?

Heidi – So I go 75% greens and the fruit I put in is banana, mango and pineapple. I’ll throw some blueberries in that because I’ve got a blueberry hedge out the front of my house and often have blueberries in the freezer. Um, I chuck a chunk of beetroot in. I’ve got beetroot growing in the garden, so I’ll put a chunk of that in two dates. Nice little caramel hit when you’re drinking it and that’s an oil that you recommended. I got that and I’ve put my daily amount of that in there. I’ll chuck a Percy’s powder in there maybe a couple of times a week. Um, yeah, and that’s probably, oh yeah, Brooke likes the Chia and the linseed, but I know you think maybe not for those, so I’d put a little bit of those in. Yeah, I don’t think I’m prone to not feel the results even if it is inflammatory. I know that I can bloat really badly and be in absolutely no discomfort whatsoever. I’ll look down and think, Oh gee, look. Seven months pregnant, I went into my daughter’s room and asked her if she wanted a baby brother or sister because I was just massively swollen but had no discomfort whatsoever. So, um. Yeah, I’ve got to be a bit careful about that. Yeah.

Clint – Yes, that’s right. We’ve talked about this on other episodes, but if you the chair and the flax in the smoothies, if you can get away with it, great. I like to put them with food. I don’t think it mixes well with mashed-up fruits and the greens in a smoothie. But if your digestion can handle it, then. Okay. Uh, and so that’s a wonderful smoothie, that is a cool smoothie. People are going to ask me, where do I get this? Percy’s powder. Is it Australian?

Heidi – Percy’s powder, he’s Australian. If you Google it on eBay and stuff, it’s all there. You can get it. Yeah. Just Percy’s powder.

Clint – Okay. Wonderful, great.

Heidi – Comes in. Little sachets.

Clint – How much of your own food do you source from your garden?

Heidi – In the spring quite a lot and plant celery and cucumber on purpose and to make your juice I throw it in my ninja. So skin and all for the cucumbers because I know there’s no chemicals on it, in goes the celery in goes the water. Blitz it and then just tip it to a strainer and beautiful. Yeah. The beautiful color. And yeah. So I can be eating a lot. Sometimes the greens are not quite stretching and I’ll just grab a packet. You can always get the kale and spinach super greens from most places to supplement if I’m not quite there, but I try and keep it rolling. Yeah.

Clint – Okay. What else? This is great, Heidi. What other tips have you got for us?

Heidi – Exercise. You’ve just got to do it. I’m prone to be anemic, I can feel really tired. And I’m a casual relief teacher. So when you come home after teaching 25 to 6 year olds for the week, I reason with myself that I have expended any energy that I have and just need to sit down and rest, have a nap rather than exercise. So that’s where the bike in front of the TVs probably my best bet for if I’m not feeling like doing the exercise, at least I feel like I’m reclining and distracting myself by the TV show or whatever’s on instead of going out for the walk. One recipe at a time. I love cooking and I just bought a new folder, I’ve got two folders of all my favorite recipes and bought a new folder. Google different recipes. Um, I remember trying it was a red curry, it had lentils and cauliflower in it and I made it and ate the first portion of it and thought, Yeah, it won’t make that one again, but didn’t want to waste it. So I took it to work for the next three days and by the time I got to the last serving of it, I’m like, Actually, I really like it. So I did stuck around as one of my favorites. So yeah, your taste buds change, Um, the thought of eating a piece of red meat now, not appealing to me. Like I would have salivated over the thought of that before. But yeah, your taste buds change. Soy milk tastes like normal milk to me now, so just know that the cravings will pass. Second day on that cucumber and celery juice, I drove past McDonalds thinking gee would steamroll someone for a Big Mac right now. So you have really strong cravings in the beginning. But they pass, they pass. I remember thinking Rockmelon and papaya were the most beautiful tasting things on the planet. Took it to work and I’m like, this is so yummy. When I’ve been on the quinoa and buckwheat for ten days and didn’t last for 12 days. I went up next level near enough and Avocado got brought down a bit quicker too from the advanced because I was making sushi and had to put avocado in that. So yeah, just being consistent with it.

Clint – Now with the reintroductions. I’m glad you mentioned that. Were you able to eat fruits easily without issue after you’d done the sort of whatever, like seven, or eight days?

Heidi – Yeah. And I desired them. Like normally I would if I walked past an orange on the table. I had absolutely no desire whatsoever to eat it because I’d had a wagon wheel with my hot drink, and why would I want to eat an orange? But when you feel like you’re in, I’m a celebrity, get me out of here and you’re on the beans and rice and you’re craving anything else. And so when you have a nice piece of fruit. Oh, and put lime on the papaya next level delicious. You have to put lime on it. Lime juice. So you appreciate simple things because it is simple. Like your program’s not difficult. It’s simple, simple foods, and you just develop and grow with it as you get into it.

Clint – Very good. Very good. Let’s see. So other than Percy’s powder, have you got any other. Oh, you’ve got the zinzino Balance oil, which our community is really embracing. If you’re not taking that, consider that, folks. It’s over at Rheumatoid solutions.com/omega-3 and you’ll learn all about it there. And why is there an oil being considered in a completely otherwise oil-free program? All the reasons there the studies are there. The FAQs and all that, it’s all there. So other than those two, are you doing a vitamin D? Are you doing a probiotic? Do you do your B12?

Heidi – Yes. All of those. Because the one I like got onto your program because I was trying every supplement under the sun thinking, what is it? What’s the one thing that’s just going to make a massive difference and everything will be right? Flaxseed oil and ashwagandha and yeah, you know, you’re sending away and you have it for a little while and then you don’t bother taking the rest of it because you move on to the next one. You’re trying to take the next one. But what’s come out between you and Brooke and everyone is vitamin D, and B12. Definitely those two are probiotic, especially one with it lactobacillus in the ones that we should take. So take a probiotic. I’ll take an iron tablet occasionally, if I can tell I’m really low. Um, I know that if I’m pure on your diet, the iron should come back up. But in practice, that’s not always reality. And there’s been a couple of times where my doctor threatened to send me off to the hospital for an iron transfusion. So, um, yeah, I’m mindful of that. I’ve got to figure all that out. Yeah. Yeah. I think you’re constantly testing and just seeing. Am I in the right place? Yeah. And did share with you earlier that in the lead up to this Christmas did a lot of cheats? It’s a difficult time of year because if you if you have a meal out at the pub once every two months, it doesn’t really matter what you eat. One cheat in a two-month period is not going to really make too much of a difference. But at Christmas time you’re just hitting every week something on. And I felt like my body was coping really well. And I’m saying to family, look, I’ve healed to such a degree that I can cheat regularly and it’s all right. And then after Christmas came some old bad friends. The muscle soreness, the jaw, the puts a bit stiffer in the morning. So I learnt the hard way that okay, now I’ve got to reset re-go again, and just yeah. As you say get in the healing groove and try and stay there.

Clint – Yes, it’s a balance. Our bodies get into balance and then we can fall out of balance. And that balance is like a symphony orchestra of all these different things that are happening that are way beyond our possible comprehension. And so too much stress or either food stress or social stressor, alcohol stressor, lack of sleep stressor, exercise deficiency is a stressor or even over exercise can be. And so all these stressors from different directions and we can lose balance immune system, basically we end up with some more intestinal inflammation and then we end up with more autoimmune activity. So yeah, looks like you’re back on track again though, Christmas is now several months ago as we’re recording this today. You’re back to just having that little bit of a bursitis in the heel or in the foot there. Let’s talk about that in a second. Just a tip on the vitamin C connection with iron. Make sure your vitamin C is really high, this helps with iron absorption. So if you weren’t already doing it and I suspect you may just keep that in mind. The vitamin C guidelines are really conservative, and those who spend careers looking into vitamin C believe that just like vitamin D, the recommended daily dose should be much higher at a federal level. So, you know, consider upping it. There’s no up. Well, I’ve got to watch what I say. But like the you know, if you were to take just a few grams of it a day, you’re well within safety range, even at that level. If you want to investigate doing that.

Heidi – Then I was going to ask you about a supplement I bought L-glutamine or something like that. Oh.

Clint – L-Glutamine. Yeah. It’s an Amino Acid.

Heidi – Because I bought it. And something that I’ve done to encourage myself, apart from listening to all your podcasts, is I Google the food I’m eating and benefits, beetroot benefits, leafy greens benefits. Just Google that all the time and I can visualise what it’s doing for me. Well, I googled the L-glutamine and it said that it’s one of the preferred foods for cancer and it made me balk at it. And there was a bit of contention. Yes, it is. No, it isn’t. Um, I don’t know if you have any insight further with that, but I haven’t taken it because I just don’t want to risk stirring up cancer?

Clint – Absolutely. I don’t know about any cancer connection because I just have never done any literature review on this. But what I have done is look into the literature around L-glutamine. And I’ve just brought up my, uh, soft copy of my book here and let me read this out. It’s under the category of glutathione, so let’s just create a little bit of a long arc as to create the relevance. So the backstory is that when we have an autoimmune disease, one of the mechanisms of the action of destruction of our joints is that the body is creating white blood cells that use oxidization as a technique to break down the cellular membranes of the perceived or real bacteria threat at the joint level. In simple phrase, in simple words, we’ve got maybe some lipopolysaccharides or some bacteria right at the local joint level. The body sends in white blood cells, and those white blood cells aim to destroy those little microbes or microbial parts. In the process of doing so, there is some collateral damage to the cell structure of the joint cartilage tissue and so on. If this continues to happen for a very long time, meaning literally chronic meaning long term, then what the result is, is a depletion of the body’s internal antioxidant systems. This is the ones that are food derived like vitamin C and so on, but also ones that are inside our cells which are glutathione in particular. And so in the longevity community, everyone trying to extend lifespan and so forth, they are obsessed about this master antioxidant called glutathione, and glutathione cannot be successfully supplemented directly. It doesn’t do well just to consume glutathione, which you can do and I have done in the past until I was convinced that it was a waste of money and time.

Clint – However, there is a wonderful study that I looked at around about a year and a half ago, and it talked about the effectiveness of taking the precursors of glutathione, which meaning the molecules that when combined together, can help to help the body make glutathione. And they are anacetylcysteine another amino acid and l-glutamine. That will help to build glutathione, but the best way, of course, is exercise. The body responds tremendously to exercise as a source to stimulate glutathione, so that’s the number one way. The far second best way is through the supplementation of anacetylcysteine and l-glutamine together. And a study showed that this was effective on actually some COVID patients. But then just reading from my book here, it says L-glutamine is of course, an amino acid. As we talked about, building block of protein research suggests that it can be helpful in reducing gut inflammation and permeability. These results are encouraging as I go on to say here, yet I’ve only had one client report confidence in their improvements by taking L-glutamine as a supplement. This is one of these supplements that’s been well researched and well supported in the literature. But in practice, yeah, you get a lot of shrugs from the rheumatoid community. So I know that’s a long answer, but there’s going to be people who are interested in that and I absolutely have no information around about cancer and l-glutamine And so, I don’t think the data is strong enough to justify taking it for rheumatoid and therefore I would think, why would you do it if there is any contraindication with cancer.

Heidi – Yeah. Just look at it and think no I’ll leave it there a bit longer. If I’ve had a long, a lot longer time with the cancer diagnosis gone by, I might look at it then. But yeah, that’s, that’s always in the back of my mind. I wish someone had said inflammation in the body is a cause of cancer and that was at a higher risk. I wish I’d known a lot of those things earlier. That’s why I think it’s so important to get the word out. I was thinking of a second book idea for you. I know you’ve got the first book happening, but if you had a second book called Testimony where you just got people to do a compact version of their story, because I know that there’s too many variables for you to I know you’ve desired to do the clinical testing and get your peer reviews and things, but it’s really hard to pin it down. But there are literally hundreds, thousands of people who have done well on this program and I think to bring a lot of that information together and just try and make a bit more noise about it. I’m just thinking of all the other people who are in terrible pain on that heal and soothe site where I saw your name. I just feel sorry that they don’t have this information that they could get relief if they knew. Um, yeah. So for me, I want to make a bit of noise about it.

Clint – Um, thank you, Heidi. I can see that. You know, you really care about wanting to help other people. And you mentioned the anger that you felt yourself as you went through this process and you were a fast responder, as you said by day nine. I don’t know if you mentioned this in just a few minutes we spent before we hit record here, but you noticed most of your symptoms. You actually had a blood test done and saw your markers dropped radically in nine days, didn’t you?

Speaker2 – Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi – Because I rushed into doing the program. I didn’t do a test before, but I had previous blood tests to show me where they had been, and down they came. So the last blood test I did was an 11 for CRP, which is up. I was consistently at a four, um, leading up to Christmas, so I’ve still got a bit of work to do to get it back where I was, some of that can take time. So I probably had that blood test early January. Um, so I’ll be, yeah, actually I’m due for another blood test now and see how it’s going. Yeah.

Clint – You can tell when it’s up, can’t you? Like I used to be able to predict fairly well to within a few decimal places what my C-reactive protein was. I used to be obsessive about it. I’ve still got in that filing cabinet right behind me down there. Um, something like 60 blood tests, which all which I have charted over the years on an Excel sheet before Google sheets became, you know, more, more of the, the go. Um, and yeah, just to really, really, really pay attention to that. So if in January when you reacted those foods you were tested at 11 and today you feel you know pretty much pain-free bar that bursitis in the foot then you’re going to see your results maybe even better than the four that you had prior to Christmas.

Heidi – Yeah. Hope to get it down more. I’ve I was very driven with the monthly it was like a test I was studying for and I came up with my own chocolate recipe using peppermint carob buds and non-dairy dark chocolate melt them together and put rice bubbles and almonds and cranberries through that and would let myself have that after my blood tests so that I had a full month before the next blood test. It was like my little reward, but it gave you something to aim toward and I liked getting that result. But I was going to say, you’re right, because last year I maybe had two blood tests because it had get near the time and I’d go, Now I’m feeling tired. It’s going to say I’m low iron or I ate sourdough for the last three days. It’s not going to give me a good result. I’m not going to go into a test until I know I’m going to get a good mark.

Clint – No, there’s a whole strategy around those blood tests isn’t there. What my thoughts were when I would get my blood test was I don’t want to manipulate this result too much. Like we all know that if we wanted to get like really great things we could just fast for the day before, just do celery and cucumber juice the day before, and then you go in for a blood test the next day and you’re going to ace your CRP and SED rate. But what’s the point? Because it’s not a real representation of how you feel. It’s crazy, isn’t it? How many of us have that control in a micro window over a day or two? We can really manipulate that, but it doesn’t serve us. We should be getting our tests done on a typical day. Ideally.

Heidi – Yeah, yeah. And you feel better for it in the long run. Like, yeah, if you’re constantly cheating, you’re just going to be inflamed and you’re going to have the problems coming back anyway. Fasting was another thing cottoned on to was a good thing to do. I like the idea of eating within an eight hour window and often on the weekends I’ll not eat for as long as I can. And then when you do have your meal, you really enjoy it. Um, yeah, I like, I like fasting. I’ve heard lots of good stories with cancer too, with fasting, because the first cells your body eats if you’re not eating, is the malformed ones. So yeah, a lot of people.

Clint – Look, if we could all not eat and survive, we would have no disease, no problems, nothing go wrong, we would live the longest possible lives. The consumption of energy into eating, and in fact, the main source of aging. It is the current leading theory onto the source of aging actually ties into something I was talking about earlier with glutathione is that the conversion of the energy from our food that we consume, which goes into the bloodstream and ultimately ends up as entering our cells with the oxygen that we get from breathing. Then to get converted into cellular energy for us to thrive, that process is not 100% efficient. There is a small amount of free radicals created with every single cellular conversion of food and oxygen into cellular energy, and that little bit of oxidation just accumulates and accumulates with time. And that little bit of oxidation is what is considered to ultimately end our lives. That non idyllic conversion and glutathione plays a big role in neutralizing that free radical that is created and therefore hence the desire to be fit and active, to have high levels of antioxidant intracellular enzyme glutathione and others. There’s catalase and superoxide dismutase and others so that we can keep that free radical load down. So what other tips have you got for us? Is there anything else? And I know I keep putting you on the spot with that question.

Heidi – Like Wim Hof as well. I have a cold shower. My great grandmother used to have cold showers and thought she was nuts. And now I’m like, Oh, great, Grandma knew something. You really can, especially if you’ve got muscle aches and things, a cold shower and in winter, like when it’s really cold. First time I did it, I felt every cell in my body want to desire to exit less. But now I can embrace it a lot easier like it gets easier to do. So yeah, that and his breathing techniques, I’ve used that before. So yeah. Wim Hof, he’s got a website. Get your sleep, Epsom salt bath especially anything muscular I think is a magnesium can be a magnesium issue. So maybe take a magnesium if you got muscular stuff happening. Muscular soreness.

Clint – That’s fascinating. Can I interrupt you? Love. Love it, love it. Love it. Because no one’s ever talked down this angle before. I mean, we hear about muscle cramps after a game of soccer as a kid. Oh, you need some more salts, right? Take some magnesium. But have you found that with the fibromyalgia like muscle pains yourself and do you do that in addition to the Percy’s powder, or is it just the content that’s in his powder?

Heidi – Um, probably if I’m like, I’m out of this powder at the moment. I sent for some and they said, Sorry, we’re low in stock and we don’t have it. So I’ve not had it for a month, so it’s something I need to reorder. But yeah, I’ve got a magnesium supplement in the cupboard, so I know that if I’m having a day where I go, Oh, hang on, it’s like I can feel, I can feel muscular stuff going on. I’m just going to take a magnesium tonight. Yeah, yeah. I just hope. They go together, those two things.

Clint – Beautiful. As you were speaking, I’m thinking, what foods do I eat for magnesium? Because I like to, try and check all the boxes off with the foods. And I think that the magnesium in cacao powder that I put on my oats for breakfast is a very good source.

Heidi – Yeah, I’ll put that in my smoothie. Sometimes, too. The cacao powder. Yeah. bitter is better. Put it in there.

Clint – That’s great. Okay, look, I’m going to keep us until you run out of ideas. What else?

Heidi – To keep a positive attitude. You just got to, especially with stress. I’ve had some events happen where I’ve felt very stressed about them, and I know in years gone past wouldn’t have even hit the marker with me. So I’ve had to do a lot of positive self-talk to try and not feel the stress because you’re depleting your body. If you’re giving yourself adrenaline hits all the time, every little problem you get, that’s not good for you. So probably, yeah, your self care, just making sure you’re balancing things as best you can. Plenty of sleep. Don’t underestimate exercise. I feel like that’s a good toxin remover. It’s almost like your blood is getting a bit stagnant if you haven’t moved it around a bit. But you do a good lot of exercise, gets the oxygen going, gets the toxins out. Like it’s just exercise shouldn’t be underestimated. Yeah.

Clint – Fantastic. Do you find that you get symptomatic relief with a nice steady use of the exercise bike in front of the TV or is it almost just paying lip service to exercise? Like I want people to think well maybe I could do that. You see if they get a stationary bike put in front of the TV, is it are you finding that it actually helps?

Heidi – I like that I can pedal the bike, play Candy Crush, listen to the news. I’m not really thinking about what I’m doing, but I know how long I need to do it. And I feel very warmed through. I feel like I’ve raised a sweat. Often the sweat will run down, but I’m not thinking about it. I’m thinking about it’s self care and downtime as much as you can while you’re exercising. So for me, it’s the exercise you’re doing when you’re not wanting to exercise because you’re not really focusing on it. Whereas I love going on my walks, that’s good thinking time for me and just good relaxed time. And I like getting a little bit of muscle tone. If you’re walking every day, then you get a bit of tone in your leg muscles and stuff and that you feel good. The other thing I didn’t mention was the weight loss. I lost about eight kilos on your program and I say to people, You can eat as much as you want, you don’t get hungry. I said, You just don’t want to. Yeah, you can’t overeat on salads. You just you’re just not really keen to go back for your second serve a lot of the time. The other thing with eating is, Brooke Goldner’s side smoothie shred. I’ve picked up a couple of meals off that that I incorporate. She does a salad with raw broccoli and raw cauliflower, which I never would have thought of eating it raw. But she puts a big dollop of guacamole on top, and that’s quite a good, really clean meal if you’re, if you’re aiming for going as clean as you can. And she’s got a nice dressing she makes with almonds and, and lemon juice and muffins and stuff. So yeah, you can find those things.

Clint – Wonderful. Well, I think we have picked your brains pretty well, and you’ve been able to share all the things that have worked for you really well, and it’s exciting. There are several things that are good reminders, and there are some things that are new or that are emphasized more than others. So that’s been great. Yeah, really, really interesting, and appreciate it so much. I love your idea about the testimonials book because if we reached out and said, Hey guys, do you want to be telling your story? And it doesn’t need to be, hey, I’ve become symptom-free, no medications and I never get symptoms, it can be, hey, I’ve been able to get out of bed in the morning with more ease. And I no longer need to take my non-steroidal drug. I mean, this is where some people are at, like you said, meet people where they’re at. So if I did that, if enough people tell me they would like to read such a book, it would actually be far easier than the one that I’m trying to put together at the moment.

Heidi – Very much so. And it can be completely electronic, it doesn’t even have to go to print, although it’s easy to do a book to print. Now anyone can write a book and print it there are things, things to do for that. But I’m thinking of there was a girl on, I think your website and she was running along singing, clicking her heels together. She had the dog with her and she said in her comments, I was getting around the house on crutches and just, you know, when I read the very first time I saw your name, he said, Clint Paddison has fixed my wife and hundreds of others. And that’s what made me think a lot. A lot of people have had a good result and a lot of people have and think, Yeah, I did your program on your testimony alone. So imagine what all of our testimonies look like and maybe then the authority, um, you know, the rheumatoid, I don’t know what you call.

Clint – The medical community?

Heidi – The medical community might actually acknowledge and give some credit to. So when someone’s with their specialist and asks, what can I do food wise, they can give an answer, that is true.

Clint – I love it. I love it. And. I might just have to think about how we can do that. And you’re totally right, it would be a separate, completely separate book. I have sprinkled within the current book examples that illustrate certain points that I make. So, for example, look here are the routines for your knees and here is someone who’s followed that. And it’s then an excerpt from a podcast or it’s an email I’ve received that illustrates that success based on those strategies. But you know, I really like what you’ve said, I’m going to think about that. And if you’re listening or watching this video and you think that’s a good idea, please support it. Because if I’m getting good feedback from that concept, I’ll obviously want to then make that happen. Heidi, you are a champion. Thank you so much. This has been fun and we, uh, we both for us, it’s. We’ve just hit, like, 9 -00 at night. We did this on a Sunday night, and I appreciate your time, so thank you so much. Keep up all the great work.

Heidi – Yep. That’s a pleasure, I will do. I’m in the inner sanctum now. I can access all your videos and the live calls, so that’s another layer for me this year to just keep building on my knowledge base. So thank you for everything that you do. And in this space, it’s definitely helped me and it’ll help many others. So thanks.