Sustainable results can be achieved with the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid Arthritis, as testified by Johanna: she talks today about her six-years stint with no pain and no drugs.

We discuss in this interview:

• How Johanna was able to retire without the financial burden of medications
• The dramatic improvements in her pain levels and lifestyle with the Paddison Program
• Weight training and deep squats
• Johanna’s strategy for the Program
• Control as the final goal
• Sleep routine
• Focusing on ourselves with a judgement-free attitude
• Variety in a plant-based diet

Clint – If you want to listen to a discussion of two people who are living with rheumatoid arthritis with no symptoms, who are on no drugs, but who have previously been through the nightmarish existence that this disease can bring. Then, that’s what you’re in for today. My guest is Johanna, she’s in Canada, and she and I did an interview six years ago where she described how she’d come off a huge laundry list of medications for rheumatoid arthritis. I reached out to her and said, let’s get back together and have another conversation. Six years later, no drugs, and find out how she’s doing and living purely with lifestyle strategies. After reversing her symptoms of RA using the Paddison Program for rheumatoid arthritis, and then staying connected with me on a pretty infrequent basis. Just checking in with me over those past six years and keeping everything on track. So, Johanna, I’m so excited to connect with you again and find out how you’re doing, how you’re doing it, and everything related to RA management. How are you?

Johanna – I’m excellent. I am pain-free, sleeping well, and I’m living the dream. I retired in 2019, which I didn’t think I was ever going to do because of all the medications. I thought for one shot of Enbrel, it was $450 a week. How do you live on a retirement pension with that? However, being medication-free, I’m in this house, which is that’s the kitchen. Those are the windows to the lake. It’s a house on a lake and it’s a 4000 square foot house on a lake. This lake that is behind me is my property.

Clint – Wow. How does it feel to be able to walk around like this? I mean, you move effortlessly, right? We’ll talk about your health in a minute. What does it feel like to be living the retirement dream with this gorgeous property near the lake?

Johanna – It’s a dream and it’s euphoric. Yeah, it’s the smells and it’s the air. I walk my dog a lot up a hill, maybe at 25 to 30% grade. Then, I just came back from a round of golf. I’ve lowered my handicap quite a bit. I joined a gym, so I do some weight training, and I haven’t been in a while because I’m golfing pretty much every day. Either nine holes or 18 holes. Yeah, life is pretty good. However, food-wise, it’s not that great and it’s restricted. I don’t eat oils and I’m on a vegan diet or a plant-based diet. The occasional time I’ll have something where oil is maybe the fifth or sixth listed on the ingredient list. Then, I just cut back and I go I’ve got to be cautious. I haven’t had a flare or I haven’t had an owie. I mean, I’ve fallen walking my dog because I’ve tripped over crummy asphalt. However, that’s fine and that’s not arthritis.

Clint – Okay, let’s we’ve got to fill in a lot of blanks here. Let’s assume 99.5% of people did not listen to our interview six years ago. I know we’ve got some fans and I thank you guys, but there’s going to be only a small percentage who are that dedicated to have listened to everything going back that far. Let’s just do this in a bullet-point format. Just pop your computer down, so we’ve got some stability there on top of something with some nice lighting.

Johanna – Yeah, I’m trying to find that spot and I had it over here.

Clint – Yeah. I’ll do the little setup for this while you get it. Here’s the thing. Let’s just go through the checklist first and check first thing off the checklist. Then, we’ll short answers here. You had severe rheumatoid, right? We’re not talking about someone who just had one finger slightly affected and heavy-handed drugs right?

Johanna – My ankles were continuously swollen and I would wake up at night in pain if I could even get to sleep. The pain was 24/7 and I had seen the doctor several times, and he couldn’t figure out what it was. It felt like a cyst or something was bursting out of my ankle and it was just so sore. Then I said, can you lance it? Can you cut it open? Can you cut it off? It’s just killing me. I would take ice packs with me this big, and I would put them in my steel-toe shoes and go to work. I had ice burns up my shins and on my ankles, and I would climb ladders and try to do my job with these ice packs in my shoes was painful. Then, it went into my knees and my knee was the size of a basketball. The rheumatologist drained 50 mL out of each knee. I was on the Enbrel, I perpetually felt like I had the flu and I was tired all the time. If this continues, I’m going to be in a wheelchair in about five years. I did have it in my fingers a little bit. Both my ankles and knees were massively affected. Then, I was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis so that it didn’t have to be equal on each side. I could have a spot here, a spot there, and a spot somewhere else. Then the psoriasis could come, but it never did. However, it wasn’t a very good life. I just remember being tired, the pain, the drugs, and it just went from one to another to another. Then, I joined a Facebook group, and it was a pain circle. They would list all the drugs they’ve gone through Humira, Cosentyx, Enbrel, and Simponi. They said, every four years I have to change drugs because my body gets used to it. Then, I was like, this is a nightmare. Then, I got sick with some kind of flu and I was asked to be off work for six weeks by the doctor because I had immune suppressants in me. I just did some googling and I found the Paddison Program. Then I said, it can’t hurt, can it? I signed up, I sent my money and I thought, it sounded too good to be true. If this is a fake, I wasted a limited amount of money, but here we go. When I started it, I was like, holy moly, this is amazing. I weaned myself off my medication myself, which is not recommended. My rheumatologist, he was gracious and he said, okay, but you’re doing fine. I went probably from about 230 lb, dropped to about, 165-160 lb. I got a weird skinny like people started to notice, your legs are disappearing. Then, I lost more weight and I probably went to 145 lb. However, I’ve gained back a bunch of weight, but it’s a healthier weight. I think I’m about 175 lb, but I’m 5’10”, actually 5’11” because I grew an inch two years ago.

Clint – As you do. There’s something I haven’t heard ever. First of all, amazing. Then, you got off the drugs. We were talking before you were on methotrexate with, of course, folic acid at one point, steroids at one point, and biosimilar to the Enbrel sulfasalazine. I mean, this to have been on all those drugs, this must have been going on for several years before you unraveled it all. Correct?

Johanna – Yeah. My knees seizing up and I just had no idea. I kept thinking that I was spraining my ankles. I think it started back maybe 2012 as early as that. Then, the symptoms would just disappear. Then, it would seize and they would come back more frequently until it was a perpetual sprained ankle. Then, some foot doctors said, you have complex regional pain syndrome. He diagnosed this from four feet looking at my foot. The doctor didn’t touch it, didn’t take the temperature, didn’t do a blood test, and it was really weird. I went back to my doctor and then he sent me to a rheumatologist. They said arthritis is difficult to diagnose because it comes and goes. The last time I saw the rheumatologist, it was pretty a steady state of pain.

Clint – We’ve established that you’ve been through the wringer with RA’s medicines. Also, RA’s symptoms, draining both knees, ankles are swollen, thinking about wheelchair possibilities, etc. We’ve secondly established that today you live symptom-free, right? You can get up, walk around, and walk your dogs when you wake up in the morning. Do you have morning stiffness or does it bother you during the night?

Johanna – No, because of the weight training. Well, after I had my knees drained, they were funky, right? They didn’t bend and you were kind of afraid to bend them. There was some weird tightness and I started to do this squat that my daughter recommended. It’s like when farmers pick berries in the fields, they just squat down. Your feet are flat and you’re completely squatted down almost as though you’re sitting. Then, you get back up and I haven’t been able to do that until this year. It does take time, takes a long time, but you have to be steady and you have to be patient. Then, you have to be kind to your knees. I remember writing in the forum, I got pinching knees here and there, which I just remembered. I don’t have pinching knees anymore because I’m doing these squats. I think, and I’m just getting the full motion, I can sit cross-legged. I can sit on my knees.

Clint – On your ankles?

Johanna – I can sit on my ankles.

Clint – What we’ve learned just to help people think this through here is that deep squats are very helpful for the knees. You’ve mentioned the forum, what here Joanna’s referring to is our coaching platform, where we have a community of members where we all share advice and curriculum and everything. In there, what we’ve done is we’ve put information around how deep squatting can be helpful for knees. Thus, we don’t go in and out in the way that you might see at the regular gym. What we do is we get in, we hold and come back out again. We’re not looking for any pinching at all. I feel some discomfort at that point. Let’s hold for 30 seconds and come back out again. It’s something we can do just twice a day and we’re done. Okay, so that’s awesome that you’ve been able to do that. How are your ankles today?

Johanna – There are just ankles and they’re not cankles. I don’t need ice packs because I can walk well. Golf is on a hilly terrain sometimes and I can walk up these hills in any direction. Then, I can walk down these hills in any direction. I did sprain my ankle, my left ankle, really bad about a year ago. It felt a lot like arthritis, but it wasn’t arthritis and it was just sprained. Then, it healed and then it was fine, it’s fine today. Thus, whatever the arthritis tried to do, it wasn’t successful. It didn’t chew away the joint I guess. I’m able to injure it and actually recover from the injury.

Clint – Amazing. Okay. If we just discuss now what’s going on. If people are watching this thinking, oh my gosh, like what did she do? What’s this Paddison program and all this stuff has miraculously gone? Then the doctor said, yeah, that’s working and you’ve come off the meds. Here we are six years since you’ve done this, and you’re basically just living like any other person with a difference. Let me add that you’re far healthier than any other person who’s retired and so on. Are you on any meds at all for anything?

Johanna – I avoid medications because I don’t want them to mess up my stomach or mess up my microbiome.

Clint – Yeah, exactly. Which is what I was going to just mention. What we’ve done here, we’ve got to get rid of symptoms to the extent that you have, we have to completely eliminate bacteria, toxins, and food particles getting into the bloodstream. That’s our primary objective. If we heal the mouth, which is a leaky gut, heal the gut, and we improve our oxidative stress. Thus, the balance between antioxidants in the body and free radicals. We reduce our sympathetic nervous system activity, which is stress, and we put all these things together. We have adequate vitamin D, optimized omega 6 to 3 ratio, and we stimulate the body with happiness hormones all the time, doing things that we love. We can end up like you. Okay, it is it. There are so many nuances to this, which is why, we help people to do this. It’s like, there you are, here I am two human beings with. Like, I’m 18 years since diagnosis and we’re sitting here together having a conversation. I live near the beach and I go outside in nature. You’ve moved to the forest and you’re loving it on your 4 million acres of land. You know what I mean? I want this to be inspiring and to be aspirational for people who think, I want to be in that situation. But it’s a lot of work, isn’t it? Like, let’s not sugarcoat this. You’ve mentioned before, you have to apply discipline to your diet. You’ve had to rebuild your strength and fitness. Can you tell us all the things that you’ve done to get to this and what you have to do to maintain it?

Johanna – Well, I started the Paddison program and I went with the first steps, which was the cucumber and celery cleanse. Then, I just started adding foods and made sure they were okay. Then, whenever I had sort of a big question mark, I would just go back to the celery and cucumber juice. When I had the baker’s cyst earlier this year, I did celery and cucumber juice. Within a week, I was able to bend my leg and walk. The doctor said this isn’t even possible even with a baker’s cyst, no matter how you got it. He was like, that’s just amazing. He said, what did you do? Then I said, cucumber and celery juice. Also, I did do hot yoga when I was living in the big city. It was accessible, it was there, and it was really hot. You can’t even get your clothes off because you’re so sticky. However, it helped a lot with mobility and it was great that way. I didn’t really take on weight training until earlier this year. We did some light biking, but it’s mostly been a lot of walking. Some biking in the city to commute back and forth to work and always golf. Now, golf has really amped up and we have a very hilly course. I mean, three of those hills were like pushing a 50 lb. bag up a hill, you get a good workout, and it’s 14,000 steps.

Clint – See, the big clue here is you’re moving the parts of the body that were affected. Your knees, ankles, and obviously the lower part of the body below the hips. Your strategy was to move and move. Thus, we come back to the simplicity of the body which is there wouldn’t be a joint there unless that part of the body is meant to move. Let’s move it and that’s the way it gets nurtured. By moving it, we also engage all of the surrounding soft tissue, which builds strength. So amazing, right?

Johanna – It’s part of the Paddison Program formula; 60% food and 40% exercise. Thus, I try to stick to that and I try to keep a step counter. Well, it’s my phone and I always try to make sure I get X number of steps in per day, so often with great success.

Clint – For sure. You showed us the bicep a minute ago and you’re looking very strong. Do you also now do upper-body workouts as well?

Johanna – Yes. there’s an exercise, where you do this? I use 25 lb and 220 lb for my leg press.

Clint – Solid.

Johanna – It got to a point where I thought, well, I don’t want to keep doing too much. I dialed it back a bit, and I’ve just given myself a break. Like I’m doing obsessive amounts of golfing. Yeah, but I walk and I don’t take a power card.

Clint – I made that note when you mentioned before pushing that 50 lb thing up the hill. I made a note to myself. You’re not in the cart. Interesting. That’s why you’re in such good shape. Now, let’s get away from the physical stuff. It’s because so much of this is mindset, determination, commitment, and all of that stuff. I want to hear what are some of these repetitious thoughts, maybe on a subconscious level. However, you’ll be able to dig them out when we probe here what you have about your future and who you are as a person that’s helped you overcome this.

Johanna – I don’t know.

Clint – Let me give an example. I, as a child, always had this belief. I developed this belief that things always work out for me. Another one that I got through university was, I’m the luckiest guy in the world, and I completely expect luck. For things to work out for me and having that, I think then means I take action or I attract things. I’m curious because it’s not something I talk about much with other people. You must have something like that to be pulling these kinds of results into your life.

Johanna – I honestly don’t think I do, mostly concerning food, because food is such a big deal everywhere you go. It’s more fear-based because that pain of not sleeping because of pain is just beyond scary. It is because I had no idea at the time that it was happening. Is this ever going to stop? I mean, there’s giving birth pain, you have babies but at some point that’s going to stop. You’re not going to be in labor for the next ten years. However, I didn’t know whether that pain in my ankles and in my knees was ever going to stop. I don’t want to go back to that again. Like I have goosebumps just thinking about it. It’s just so that’s my primary driver. I think my commitment to it is seen by others. My husband is very gracious in researching foods that he can cook for me because he’s the cook and we just go to restaurants. Then, we go to parties and they say, what do you eat? I have a specialized diet, and that’s okay. Just do what you need to do and it doesn’t bother me. Eat fish, eat bacon, rub it in my face, and it doesn’t bother me. But you know what? When you clean dishes after somebody’s eaten steak and there’s fat in there. Then I’m going, what is this shoe polish on my hands? You’ve just eaten this like it’s not going away. I’m using soap like it’s not leaving and I used to eat that. However, I can keep going that way, and that for me is my motivator, which is to never go back to that again. Also, removing something that painfully controls my life. I guess it’s me wanting to be in control of my life.

Clint – Yeah, perfect use of the word, because I know the word control is our end game. Yeah, it’s not cure and it’s not remission. I don’t like those words, cure is too strong. If I was in Canada and said let’s go and get McDonald’s, then we wouldn’t be having these kinds of conversations. If we did that every day, we’d be like, those things aren’t quite as right as what they’ve been for the last X many years. Okay, it’s not cure and it’s not remission. I’ve had clients come to me and say, I want help who’s been called in remission, and they’re on a biologic and two disease-modifying drugs. Thus, remission isn’t very satisfying a word. It’s because remission just means no longer seeing disease activity. However, it doesn’t take into equation whether or not you’re on medications or not. Whilst, remission is nice to have, I think the patient will always agree. I’d prefer to be symptom-free and control it myself, which is where our end game comes in, which is complete confidence and control over your condition. How confident do you feel about the condition?

Johanna – 100%. I know I read labels, I read labels, and I read labels.

Clint – Isn’t it crazy? There’s a world of view on what has to be done. We’re sitting here talking about reading labels and managing the condition.

Johanna – Yeah, I do share my experience with a lot of people. A lot of them are like if I can get an injection of steroids, I can still eat cake and drink wine. I go, okay, that’s your choice. I’ve stopped getting upset about it and wanting to try to say, but there’s a better life. So you just go and that’s the world you want to live in. I can live without chocolate cake because I can golf any time I want, and I can sleep through the night. Sleep is great and it’s my superpower. I do it very well.

Clint – What is your sleep routine? Just give us some tips on that.

Johanna – I go to bed at 10 -00, sometimes 9 -30 in the summer. I will wake up probably at around 5 -00-5 -30 because it’s bright. Then, I get up, I do stuff, and live my life. Then, golf, walk the dog, and clean the house and garden. Pulling broom is tough, it’s a certain weed we have here from Scotland and it’s taking over properties. It can be hard on the back, but the hands are working. Nothing is stopping me from doing anything I want.

Clint – So incredible. All right. I’m trying to think what our audience might be thinking right now and ask those questions on their behalf. I’m thinking one question might be, do you ever get sick of eating foods that don’t contain meat, dairy, and oils? Do you ever think it’s not worth it, for example? Let’s even go and answer that. Also, how do you do it? Like where do you find recipes and how do you come up with enjoyable foods? Does your husband eat like you?

Johanna – Yes, I get very sick of eating like that, but I just continue to do it. I do have a very limited assortment of food. I eat sourdough bread that has no oils in it, nothing like that. I do eat coconut oil and coconut milk in curries. With the right amount of spices, you can zhuzh up anything and it’s just phenomenal. Sometimes I miss cookies and sometimes I miss chips. Then I go, oh man, would I like to eat a chip, but I just whine. I quit a long time or drinking alcohol. I quit a long time before I had arthritis just because it made me stupid. I didn’t become funnier or smarter and I didn’t like it at all. I just quit and bought an expensive kitty.

Clint – Yeah, they set you back a bit these days, don’t they?

Johanna – He was a $2,000 kitty, which is like six months’ worth of wine anyway. I just keep doing it because I don’t want to go back to pain.

Clint – Yeah, got it. Then your husband?

Johanna – He eats meat every day. He has a nice midriff, a big fat midriff. It looks like he’s carrying twins and he drinks wine every night. I mean, he’s not a slosh drunk. He’s a sipper and has a couple of glasses of wine a night. I just sit there and count the calories. He golfs in a cart and he’s not his healthiest self, but it’s how he wants to live.

Clint – There you go, exactly. All we can do is just focus on ourselves. He doesn’t have that giant stick of pain ready to smash him over the head. If he goes and has something that’s maybe not as much of a health strategy. Thus, who cares, to be happy and to be around as long as possible so that you can love and enjoy each other for as long as you can, right?

Johanna – I mean, he lives off of a pharmacy. He’s got metformin and something else for blood pressure. He buys one of those double pill cases morning and night for every day of the week. Thus, it’s how he manages his pills. Also, he’s pre-diabetic and I would venture to guess if he carved away some of the stuff. He would be able to carve away some of the drugs, but I can only do me.

Clint – Yeah, that’s it. We can only do me and I think that’s a wonderful thing. It is because you’re exuding judgment less. Is that a word? A judgment-free attitude. I’m not speaking about your husband when I see people like their shopping carts and what they’re putting on the travelator thing at the shopping or the grocery store. I think to myself, why would you do that to yourself? It’s like you’ve got this beautiful gift from God, this human body, a temple, and you’re just putting pollution directly into it. Why would you do that? Anyway, it’s more of an exasperation rather than judgment, you know what I mean?

Johanna – Well, some people have the mindset that you can just go to the doctor and you get pills to cure it. Then, they’ve got a pill for that. Maybe one day they’ll have an app for it. I don’t know. I guess to some people that’s their freedom and eat what they want. I sometimes look at him and I go, I’m jealous that you can do that. However, I feel almost blessed. I had the arthritis because I am so much healthier and while it was the worst of the worst thing ever to happen, it’s been one of the best things.

Clint – I completely agree. Think of all of them again, we’re not speaking about others. Just you and I here think about all of cancer, diabetes, heart disease, and a myriad of other problems, all of which have far less likelihood in the future by being as healthy as possible. You know what I mean? I want to ask you, why don’t you eat a little bit more varied? It is because we, in our family, eat this and I eat everything that’s plant-based, from tofu to avocados to endless nuts and seeds. We have chocolate cake and my wife makes an oil-free chocolate cake. We eat that on the birthdays of the families. I’m like very resilient to all this stuff. I would encourage you to explore being able to put aside some of the more chocolate-covered kind of stuff there. Also, you and I should discuss in the months ahead in our community and getting you on to some more diversity of foods, if you’d like.

Johanna – I do eat cashew cheese, tofu, avocado, peas, baby corn, and big corn or within that range of vegetables. I don’t love vegetables. When I find something that I can eat and I like it, I go bananas. Thus, I did gain quite a bit of weight in the winter, and I popped up to 185 lb. I had to start making a concerted effort to lose that weight because it became kind of uncomfortable. For example, my pants didn’t fit and stuff. I could eat a loaf of sourdough in one day. Well, that’s just a little bit too many carbs. It’s all oil-free, but you can still get fat as a vegan without eating oil. Thus, there you go.

Clint – Yeah. You’re putting the weight aside. I mean, that one’s pretty easy for us to all manage in our community. Are you able to eat potatoes, lentils, beans?

Johanna – Absolutely.

Clint – All that stuff? I think what I’d like folks to consider here is that you, you’re a straight shooter and you don’t mix your words. Then, you say I don’t love the food. If we look at it, you take all the foods that you currently eat, there are recipe books out there on forks over knives, and all of these vegan chefs and stuff. You can grab them from Amazon, and you can eat a different meal from a different recipe every day of the year, which is slightly different.

Johanna – Yeah. When I say my choices are limited, if I go down the aisles of a grocery store, a good 90% of every item sitting there that’s kind of a ready-to-eat thing has oil in it. You pick up every bag of cookies and you go, how much oil do you people need to put in everything? The aisles in the grocery store, except for the laundry section are really small for me. The produce section, I can have any part of that. It’s blueberry season and I’m just chowing down on the blueberries. I eat blueberries almost every day. Then, I found a new protein powder called, Naked Pea. It tastes like a goat spot, but it tastes okay in a shake. If you have a banana and you have protein, because sometimes I find it hard to get enough protein, especially with weight training.

Clint – Yeah. If you’re playing golf, every other day and you’re doing your weight training as well. What other questions do you sometimes get that’ll help us to maybe check off a few things that our audience might be wondering at this point? What do people normally ask you other than how do you do this or what? What other questions do you often get?

Johanna – If I eat meat and I say I’m not vegan. I don’t want to kill animals. I don’t think you people shouldn’t eat animals, that’s not at all. I do believe they should be euthanized quickly kind of like the dog market wherever it is. Where they allegedly torture animals before they skin them and eat them. I am opposed to that, but otherwise, go ahead, and have a burger.

Clint – Yeah. Gotcha. So again, back to the zero judgment thing. If this is the first podcast that anyone in my channel has ever listened to some people are just going to stare at this thinking, what? It just doesn’t fit with the paradigm of rheumatoid arthritis. Thus, what I’d encourage people to do if you’re watching this and this is one of the early ones, and you’re thinking, are you serious? Like Johanna had all these symptoms, all these drugs at six years since she got off all these meds, and she’s symptom-free. Then, this guy Clint, I’m starting to follow this guy. He’s like, saying he’s the same. Well, my last med was in 2011, so was that 13 years ago. I had to change my lifestyle and just go as hard as I can to be as healthy as possible to get rid of all my symptoms. Thus, the answer is yes and there’s no magic to it. It’s insane, and that’s what we’re talking about. We’re not just cutting out gluten, which people think. No, we’re talking about complete commitment in your life, that it becomes your highest priority. Wherein, nothing else matters than becoming the healthiest version you can, and understanding the 200-plus nuances of this. Down to the food sequence, the exercise sequence for every single joint, the way to reduce stress levels, and the way to produce happiness hormone the lot. That’s what you’ve done. Okay, so let’s not just, belittle this and say, go eat plant-based diet. It just doesn’t get you there and it’s the nuances, isn’t it?

Johanna – Yeah. Also, the cheat days do not include chocolate milk chocolate. They do not include potato chips, a Mars bar, and all that stuff. Also, French fries in a burger or deep-fried fish and that’s never. We took my mom out for a dinner, and it was a new restaurant called, Feast. Then, we had no idea what we were in for. They gave us this big plate, and it had all the vegetables in there with halibut. Then, I ate some halibut and there was a salad plate. It had a full head of lettuce drenched in oil and I ate it. I wonder what’s going to happen from this and this doesn’t look good. Then, I ate the greasy potatoes. I mean, it was all fresh food, but drenched in oil. Then, my insides were going and just get through this. However, I didn’t want to make a fuss or I didn’t want to make a scene. I stayed away from it and that was it. I didn’t go out the next day and the day after that and had more piles of oil in grease. If I have a salad, I say, can you put the dressing to the side? I might dip a little bit, but mostly I just enjoy the flavors of everything that’s in there. In the summer, you have lamb things and spicy bits, and just the green stuff by itself is fabulous. You can take fresh spinach and mix it into your curry. Then, it’s somewhat cooked but it’s not limp and gross.

Clint – Yeah. What we’re doing there for people who aren’t on the Johanna and Clint kind of wavelength here. We want to at least ensure that if we’re ever going through circumstance, have to consume some oils, which is mostly when heated. They are a free radical bomb and steal electrons from the cell membranes of our intestinal lining. Opening up the possibility for cell death and therefore leaky gut. Thus, what we need to do is to co-package our meals with antioxidants so that they become the donor of the electrons rather than coming from our bodies. If we eat a salad with any oily meal or another form of raw food, normally fruits. These can donate and act as antioxidants so that the net result of the meal doesn’t leave us in an increased state of oxidative stress. Okay, so that’s what you just said by putting some spinach with your curry. The spinach can act as that donor. Have we left anything out? Is there something that you feel needs to be emphasized, re-emphasized, or added to what we’ve talked about so far?

Johanna – If you are first starting the Paddison Program, there is no way. I would have been able to tolerate that lettuce, or that meal that I just described. Thus, you have to be stable and clear. I would say for at least two years, at the very least. Before I would even begin to think of saying, okay, I’m going to just drop everything and just try to blend into this little feast we’re having. Thus, do not make a scene and you stick to your guns. Unfortunately, you just have to be that special person at the table. People will accommodate you and they will ultimately respect what you’re trying to do for yourself. Also, don’t be shy about talking about your arthritis. I’m doing what I can to not be in pain. They will go, okay, what can we do for you? Thus, I would say at least two years and don’t even touch oil. Oil is for cars.

Clint – Yeah, fantastic. Then again, before we move past that, people might say, what don’t we need, fats? Don’t we need essential fats? Yes, of course we do. We use a supplement, an algae omega-3, which is a long-chain fatty acid. Thus, they can be immediately used by our body’s cell membranes. We have that as part of our standard protocol. Also, we pick up some shorter chains ALA via leafy greens. Later on, after we’ve graduated through the early stages that you’ve talked about. Through some chia seeds, flax seeds, and so on. At the start, even those higher-fat foods can be a little much. We like to have lots of leafy greens and some omega-3 three fatty acids from supplementation.

Clint – Thank you, Johanna. You are living the dream outcome of so many people in our community. They will watch this and they’ll say, I want to be where you are. I want to be able to golf every day, work out at the gym, and leg press over 250 lb or whatever you’re doing. I mean, this stuff is just defying the odds. As I say to a lot of people who have a lot of physical fitness and a perfect diet. How can inflammation exist in a body that is so healthy? It’s just so difficult for problems to present when you’re that healthy. Okay, it’s not in that sense and it’s easy to understand.

Johanna – I injured my shoulder a couple of years ago, and I had to go to the ER. Then, I had to get an injection in there. Supraspinatus was impinged and it was a massive pain. They saw I was fit and healthy. I got triaged before all those other people. They just said you look like you work out. Come on in here, we’ll help you out. There was a woman who was in there before me, but she went out for a cigarette break. Then, she came back inside and she had some cramping and was pacing back and forth. They went, we’ll take the healthy one first. Then, there you go X rays and the same thing. I think the health community looks at you and goes, well at least you’re trying.

Clint – Yeah, that’s one of the greatest things about this whole thing. It is probably a great way for us to close this out. Maybe even because of the discipline and because of the accomplishment that you feel, because of the mountain that you’ve climbed. You now feel this humble yet profound sense of, I can do anything. No matter what life throws at me, no matter how great the challenge. You know what, I can handle it. After all, I’ve demonstrated all of this because my priorities are here. I’m proud of that and it makes you feel like a wonderful human being without having too much self-esteem or whatever it is without being sort of arrogant. You just feel like you have a lot of self-love and appreciation for all that you’ve accomplished. It makes you handle other little trivial things in life that other people might get upset about. Makes you think that’s nothing. check this out is what I’ve accomplished. It’s amazing, isn’t it?

Johanna – I can play on the floor with my grandkids.

Clint – Yeah, good on you. Thank you so much for coming back. Let’s do it again in another six years.

Johanna – Okay.

Clint – Well, maybe sooner. Thank you so much! I appreciate it and it’s just going to help a lot of people to see that this is not only achievable but sustainable.

Johanna – Thank you for making the program and for making it affordable to everybody. Everybody can afford this and it’s brilliant. Thank you.

Clint – You’re welcome. Thank you, talk soon.

Johanna – Yep, bye.