Mike has been extremely methodical and disciplined with his approach to inflammation reduction. We have lots to learn from him, and in this episode we will listen to his advice and suggestions about all the things that worked for him.

We discuss in this interview:

• Mike’s extraordinary results with the Paddison Program, from ongoing pain to drug-free symptoms control
• Methotrexate’s side effects
• Tapering with the right pace
• A drastic change in diet following a precise schedule
• Managing reintroductions
• Hydrotherapy, Hot Yoga, patience and persistence
• Cycling and resistance taining
• Changes in mindset
• Creating habits and behaviors
• Avoiding over-exercising

Clint – We have a great story today about inflammatory arthritis reduction. Our guest is Mike from the UK and he has been extremely methodical and disciplined with his approach to inflammation reduction. And we have lots to learn from him and we’re going to dedicate a lot of time in this episode listening to his advice and suggestions about all the things that worked for him. It’s going to be fun. So thanks for joining us, Mike.

Mike – Thank you, Clint. So I guess in terms of the journey today to keep it brief, it started with ongoing back pain which lasted well was going on for maybe around a year or so. And it got to the point where physios didn’t seem to be able to kind of course correct anything. One in particular suggested, you know, I think you should see a rheumatologist, there’s a few things that are, I guess cropping up and I think that’s a good path. I guess fast forward, once in the rheumatologist’s office, blood tests and progression of pain and inflammation into, I think 14 joints in total. Was Bedbound couldn’t really dress myself, really struggling to walk and alike. So I found the Paddison Program. Um, made some very drastic changes in terms of lifestyle, very gradual and slow return to exercise. And I’m just over, I’d say, 18 months and I’m well. Blood markers are down from CRP 65.8, I think it was to 0.7 and cleared all of the inflammation from my body. I’ve got some kind of residual tendonitis that I’m working through with my Achilles and, um, yeah, but drug-free and kind of feeling like myself again.

Clint – That is amazing. It’s the sort of thing that you just in the medical community, you just never hear. Right? And so whilst in our community and over the years of sharing stories on this podcast. We’ve heard quite a lot of stories like this, but the medical community, this is still like a blue moon kind of experience. But what we’re going to cover next in listening to you is that this was all very, very, very laid out like a mission. Your documentation inside the support forum, which is where we first connected, it makes for very interesting reading as I went back, going through before we, we started today. Do you have a science background or a sort of engineering background? Because the way that you sort of planned out everything looked like you had a sort of a very logical brain.

Mike – I don’t think secondary school science is probably the extent of it. Um, but yeah, maybe bring that into my work. Um, but yeah, I think for me, I’d like to have a plan and think from the moment of diagnosis. Of course a bit of a shock to the system, but I think the best way of then, thinking about how to move forward is, okay, what’s the plan and what do I need to now do over the next, 24 hours, the next week, the next month, then, you know, so on.

Clint – Right. Okay. So let’s move through your story fairly quickly because I want to tap your brain on some things that are actionable for people. Just over a couple of minutes or so, just share you did start methotrexate in parallel to the lifestyle changes and you’re recently off methotrexate after a sort of a tapering process. Tell us about the methotrexate experience that you had.

Mike – I guess it started when I was originally in with the rheumatologist. And see, I’ve been having back and my SI joint were really giving me some grief, and then it started to spread to my knees. At the time I was just on an anti-inflammatory and the rheumatologist was kind of floating the idea of methotrexate and, um, you know, here’s some leaflets to take away, you know, it should be your choice, but you know, you need to know the side effects and some potential implications of going on to it. So it doesn’t make for great reading and absolutely was intent on avoiding it. Within a couple of weeks really from getting the leaflets um, kind of all hell broke loose, essentially knees just kind of blew up like watermelons, just my elbow the same. I had, issues with my jaw so I couldn’t eat and could barely open my mouth to brush my teeth, and had inflammation in my kind of sternum, sternoclavicular joint, I think they call it. So I was in a bit of a mess and had a blood test, and this was kind of before the Christmas period of 2021. And then I had an appointment with a rheumatologist kind of first sort of week back in January, and she said, How are you feeling? And I was like, not, not good. Um, Christmas has been rough, I was pretty much laid up most of that Christmas and New Year. And she said, Well, your bloods have gone through the roof and methotrexate now, you know, it can’t really be a discussion. You need to get onto it because we just cannot sort of suppress that level of inflammation through anything other than a disease modifier. So I kind of reluctantly said okay, because I was in a bit of a state. And started with, um, 10 milligrams for the first, I think it was like three weeks and then up to 20mg for yeah, pretty much, um, just over a year.

Clint – Okay. How did it make you feel? Was it effective and what was the tapering process like?

Mike – Yeah. So I think I started at a time when I think the disease was really kind of active, so I didn’t notice any particular change. And if anything I was getting worse but appreciated that, I think it takes a good few weeks to really start getting into your system anyway. I took it every Wednesday and noticeable that on a Thursday I would feel pretty rough, sometimes I’d have stomach pain and a kind of brain fog. I don’t know, I just didn’t feel sharp and didn’t really feel myself at work and really just wanted to think that was maybe one of the real influences on me thinking about I can’t be on this forever. I need to look at alternatives and drug-free kind of therapy to really, you know, dial up and kind of shift the needle. In terms of the tapering, at the end of the summer last year I was starting to see some real improvement from a lot of the exercise and certainly kind of dietary changes and strength back. I actually did some research as well because I think my blood markers were falling, so that was all heading in the right direction. But I was getting tendonitis in a lot of the joints where I’d had the real sort of higher inflammation and kind of synovitis. But don’t think and obviously I’m no doctor, so don’t quote me on this, but I’m pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that methotrexate kind of effectiveness on tendonitis is next to nothing. So I think that prompted me to be like, well, if it’s not going to solve for the tendonitis and maybe I need to be thinking more about sort of upping the resistance training and loading through tendons and stuff like that to kind of be the route out. So I started tapering, I didn’t want to just drop it completely because of course, I’m sure it played a huge part in bringing my inflammation down. So I started tapering 2.5mg I think it was every four weeks, and just continually did that. Maybe that was a bit too fast, I’ve heard other people taking it a little slower. But yeah, that took me up until about a month ago where I finished taking it and yeah, the last sort of four weeks I’ve been drug-free.

Clint – And you haven’t noticed anything since you started tapering several months ago?

Mike – No. No, nothing. Um.

Clint – Let’s talk about diet and exercise, and let’s enter in straight into this category of like. I mean, you mentioned that the drug played a role. But what else was crucial to be getting you into a position where now you’re not taking the drug and you’re in a wonderful position compared to before taking the drug in a nightmarish position? Because something’s changed internally. Obviously, the drug will assist in getting some symptoms down. But if you’re only looking at it from that position that’s not going to fix the underlying cause. The other sources of inflammation relief have apparently done that. So let’s talk diet, exercise and everything else that you did. Tell us what to do.

Mike – So diet was a drastic change, I was a big meat eater, loved the steak, loved the burger, loved, I guess a lot of just really bad food, chips. I think I’m one of those that I’ve always exercised a lot, so I’ve been able to kind of get away with maybe not having the best diet, and maybe not seeing the effects of it. And obviously I think I’ve paid for it, maybe with it contributing to this. But I shifted pretty much overnight from that sort of diet to whole food plant-based obviously. I followed the Paddison Program to the absolute letter. So started with um, the two-day juice cleanse and then on to the baseline which in the depths of winter, I think it was January when I started it was rough. But you know, I think we have choices every single day of everything. You know, there’s so many scenarios that are thrown our way. And I think we’ve just that change and choosing to kind of nourish my body with greens and leaves. I mean, that felt like the extent of it for a good few weeks. I just felt like I was doing the right thing, so obviously it’s a kind of staged program, so, you know, you’ve got something to look forward to and you’ve just got to kind of get your head down and plow through. Certainly I think it’s those first few weeks that are fairly limited.

Mike – So from there started I guess systematically adding new foods, waiting, seeing if there was a reaction, add something else. And right up until the sort of 180-day mark or 90 days or whatever, and just gradually doing that. Obviously completely cut out, oils, alcohol, any processed food, anything like that. And. Yeah, that was kind of the maybe the first six months was really strict. And then I think from there we had a few holidays that came up and that came up, we booked them and I was nervous, you know, about traveling. Would there be places that would cater for me or even places that would have like a vegan or plant based menu? But through research and just a bit of planning before we went away, we’ve absolutely been able to find places. And, you know, there’s stuff that unfortunately you’ve just got to miss out on. And I think having been through what I’ve been through and the level of pain, it’s very easy to pass up on anything and just think, do you know what? Once upon a time I would have loved that and got stuck right in. But do you know what? I’ll sit here with my salad and enjoy it and know that I’m hopefully not going to be in pain tomorrow. Um, so yeah, I’ve continued with that and definitely have.

Clint – How far have you got with the reintroductions? Like are you now eating potatoes, corn, a whole bunch of different starchy-based foods, beans, lentils, and lots of things like this?

Mike – Yeah. Um, pretty much all of that and a lot of variety. So I’m pretty intentional about every day trying to get as much variety in kind of along the lines of Dr. Gregor’s sort of advice. And it seems to have done the job, as I’ve gone back fairly kind of intently into the exercise space. I’ve been supplementing with a plant-based protein which is completely derived from vegetables. That’s one thing I’ve really noticed. I look at the back of everything and, you know, if there’s a word I can’t pronounce or numbers where there should be foods, I’m just like, No thanks.

Clint – That’s great. Love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s funny. All right, let’s talk exercise, and then I’ll get you to sort of rattle off other things that have helped you. But I loved what you said around the tendonitis and the methotrexate. I’ve not researched that, but intuitively, that would seem to make sense. I don’t know but if you’ve seen that somewhere, I mean intuitively that would make sense. So what we do know is that exercise does reduce tendonitis when it’s done correctly. It’s kind of one of these it needs to be a gradual thing. I’ve found that I get tendonitis in both elbows if I’m not careful because as I push things at the gym with monkey bars and things like this, um, that if I’m not careful that I develop tendonitis. And then I go back and I have to do sort of a rehab routine on my elbows, which is some simple exercises and just to get things settled again, which work very effectively. So, um, I love exercise as a way to reduce inflammation in the joints, we just go straight for the target. So which exercises did you use for which joints and what worked?

Mike – Oh, I feel like this is a big topic. Um, and I think for me I played football for I don’t know, since I was eight years old. And you know, exercise has always been such a huge part of my life. And to go from there up until everything sort of started falling apart, I was still playing football. It was always kind of one of the most important things to get back exercising and feeling myself again, but I knew it was going to be a bit of a journey. So I was seeing a physio and just thinking back now I’d go into to see her and she’d just almost be in despair. Like actually just don’t know what to do with you. We got to a stage where she was just advising me on exercises to do in a swimming pool. So, like, hydrotherapy, because I couldn’t walk, I couldn’t straighten my legs where the inflammation was so bad. And just by being in the pool and walking up and down and kind of moving my joints through a range of motion. One just, I don’t know, kind of, um, made me feel like I was doing something, but it was, I think for me, just more about starting to set a routine because I think had I gone straight into the gym, you know, as I started to, to kind of rehabilitate, it would have been a little demoralising just not being able to do anything in there.

Mike – So I started with that kind of hydrotherapy and would just go every day to the gym. And luckily enough, it has a swimming pool at that time as well. I’d lost, I’d lost like over ten kilos in the space of probably 4 or 5 weeks. I think that the inflammation was just sort of eating me up and constantly waking up in the night, sweating. And I think obviously moving to a fairly restricted diet in those initial stages, the weight just fell off me. So I’m walking up and down this swimming pool like a bag of bones feeling a little bit useless, to be honest. But you know, it was sort of a means to the next step. So, um, the next step from there was starting to do hot yoga. It’s not a Bikram class in particular, but they do Hatha and then there’s Vinyasa as well. But I kind of join those Hatha classes and I don’t know, I just kind of felt like just being in there, it was warm enough that you’d start to work up a bit of a sweat. I couldn’t do everything but you do some modifications and variations of stuff. And again, that was like, okay, I’m doing something here, and I do remember just lying in a class and, um, just, I don’t know, barely being able to get back up, lie on your back, and, I don’t know, close your eyes for 30 seconds and then we’ll meet in a seated position and can’t get up. It was one of those that was really humbling, you know, just not like at the time, 33 years old. I should be in the peak of my physical sort of existence and can’t get up off the floor. So I knew that it was just patience and, persistence. So I was probably doing, maybe five classes a week and then, going in the pool afterwards. And then that was kind of the pattern for maybe two and a half months.

Mike – Then it was time to get back in the gym and my knees were still in a really bad way. But the stationary bike was kind of the first thing that I kind of gravitated towards. So it was almost embarrassing I could barely, like, bend over to tie my feet into the pedals, and then once I did that, I’d maybe do, I don’t know, like 600m, and then I’d be like, this is enough kind of thing. And then slowly building it up, building it up. And there’s kind of like these, um, I don’t know, they’re a bit more basic stationary bikes and in the gym that I go to. And then there’s a whole kind of, um, section of they’re called what bikes? So they essentially are the closest thing to a road bike. I think they were developed by like the GB cycling team and there would always be classes going on, on that, on this bike, you know, doing barely any distance at no resistance but watching this like pack of, you know, gym goers sweating away and powering through this class and straight away I was like, that’s a goal. I need to be doing that class and in there and that’s something to aim towards. So from there gradually building up the distance and the resistance on the bike, I just found it to be such a breakthrough for my knees in particular. But I think just it was the first time I was really starting to sweat, you know, as I started to kind of push past the kind of 10K mark, I sort of felt like, okay, it’s almost like the sweat is like the disease kind of coming out of you sort of thing.

Mike – Before this call, I’ve literally just walked in from one of those watt bike classes, which I’ve been doing I don’t know, probably the last sort of nine months or so now. And it’s just kind of been a game-changer, I think. So the cycling’s been really important, in terms of resistance training I think that’s been equally important. But started again, very slow. I think I was doing, um, I had a stack of cushions on the sofa in our living room and I would just try and get up off them and then come back down and, do that ten times and then, I’d do another ten and then do another ten, and then I’d realize, okay, I did too much. So you need to kind of find that balance, and I think you very quickly start to learn and when you do overdo it and you start to aggravate things. But I found those helpful just to start to build some strength back because when I lost all of that weight, I lost a lot of muscle mass as well. I think trying to just stick to some functional movement was a priority. I had real bad inflammation in my right elbow and could barely hold a cup with water in it, it was that bad. Through a lot of the kind of push exercises, the sort of started with the machines in the gym wasn’t really doing free weights because I felt like a bit more supported with like the machine chest press in particular and started again with like five kilograms or something like measly like that and just pushing through that range of motion. Again maybe doing too much realising and then kind of coming back again. But I think after sort of learning that a few times, realizing that, okay, I’m not what I once was in terms of strength and it’s a process to get back to it. So, um, yeah, incrementally started building it up and as, um, I started to feel stronger, moved on to more free weights and bench pressing and squatting. Again, kind of sticking to all functional movement and pull-ups really trying to not put my joints into any sort of awkward positions. You see some people in the gym doing some pretty remarkable things that don’t look like your body is made to do. So yeah, just basically stuck to the basics and it seems to have treated me well. And yeah, I think both the cycling and resistance training has probably been or had the biggest impact for me.

Clint – And what are you capable of now with the resistance training and also with the stationary bike? You mentioned pull-ups, that’s piqued my interest because they are normally reserved for the sort of upper level of physical ability of people at the gym, not people who have only a year and a half ago been absolutely crippled. So, I mean, that’s incredible so I just want to see just how far you’ve come.

Mike – Yeah. So, um, in terms of the resistance training, so probably squatting my bodyweight, so around 75 kilos. The chest like bench press around 90 kilos. And then in terms of cycling, maybe doing 80km a week. I’ve got a race or a ride coming up at the end of May, which is a hundred miles, so I’m kind of training for that. There’s a group of us doing it, so again, another goal to kind of set and, but yeah, doing some fairly kind of significant distance now on the bike.

Clint – And that’s obviously a road race, right So you’ll be out in a pack of people doing a did you say 100 or 80 mile.

Mike – 100 Miles.

Clint – So a 100-mile race. Is this going to be the first actual road race or have you been practicing for these as well with your team?

Mike – So it will be the first road race. I mean, it’s not much of a team, it’s just a couple of mates but we’ll be dressed up like a team, let’s put it that way.

Clint – Wonderful. Okay, great. The transformation as I listen to this is absolutely insane. So you’ve gone from struggling to do anything other than move your body slowly through a pool to now about to ride a 100 mile race. And you’re doing pull ups, very impressive squats, bench press at the gym, no pain, no drugs. I mean, when you hear that sort of stated back like that, How do you reflect on this transformation?

Mike – I’m so grateful, and I think you really put things into perspective when you go through something like that. I’d just, I find myself just smiling about being able to just go for a cycle and not be in pain. And it’s pretty incredible what it does to you mentally as well. Both when you’re going through it, but then, in hindsight kind of looking back. So I feel great that I’ve come out the other side but equally know that the job’s not done and there’s still a lot of kind of consistency that needs to be lifelong now. And I think, I don’t know if maybe you could go as far as saying it’s kind of a blessing in disguise because of the change to my lifestyle, and I think for my overall health and maybe longevity, I might have done myself a few favors. Who knows, I could get hit by a bus next week, so you never know. Um, But I do think it had a pretty big impact on me. I also don’t want to get carried away because there’s still some goals that I’ve got set for this year. And um, obviously, like I mentioned, I’ve got those couple of sort of niggling issues with my Achilles and my peroneal tendon on the kind of outside of the kind of runs from the outside of your leg down to the side of your foot, sort of around your ankle, so just those two. And now I’ve gone to see a new physio, someone who’s a specialist in foot and ankle and tendon issues. I just saw him this week, he seems to think that could be running within the next three months. That’s a real, you know, that’s a huge goal for me. I had to stop playing football when this all started, and I’ve still got my football boots in the back of the car. And every time I open the boot of the car, I see my football boots and I’ve not thrown them out. And, I’ve said I’m not retiring from football and unless it’s on my terms. So they will stay in the back of the car until I’m able to play a game again. Um, and that might be the last game I ever play, but yeah, I purposely have left them in the back of my car. Just as another reminder, every time I open it, it’s like, okay, if you want to play football again, um, no messing around and stick to what’s working.

Clint – A couple of suggestions and a warning. When I first developed symptoms of rheumatoid and I had not yet been to a rheumatologist. I had the painful feet, stiffness in my body and I hadn’t played touch rugby or touch football, if we want to confuse our audience with the word football but touch rugby, let’s say in probably like 6 or 7 years and so I was just turned 31. And all my buddies from college and like, let’s get a touch football team going again. And, and of course I used to actually captain our college team. And so I said, Oh yeah, I haven’t played since the last saw you guys, let’s get into it. And I’d only been on the field for about ten minutes and I tried to sidestep someone and blew my ACL and they could hear the pop from the sideline, it was just awful. And that in combination with my, uh, the beginning of RA symptoms put me in a terrible way, it was like the worst possible start. That I don’t think will happen because you’ve been training and I hadn’t been exercising much in the years leading up to that. But you’ve been training and developing leg strength, stability and so on. So just first of all, take it easy. And then my suggestion because I, I was thinking, as you were saying, might be to treat it like you did when you were onboarding your exercise for the first time. Maybe just come on as a substitute and play for 5 or 10 minutes and then and then sub yourself back off again. And in that 5 or 10 minutes, you’ll probably get 80% of the joy that you would have if you’d played the whole game with only a fraction of the risk of injury or post game problems. And then you say next week I’m going to substitute myself on for 12, 15 minutes, right? And do it the same way you did with your exercise. Just ramp up the minutes.

Mike – But again, it’s something that I’ve got an eye on, but I’m in no rush. I’ve waited this long so it can wait.

Clint – Yeah. It’s becoming apparent that you do like to set goals and visualize things and play the mental side of this pretty well. Are there other things within that category that you can share with us that have worked or that feel like they work like the football boots in the back of the car? Are there other things like you’ve mentioned like observing the pack of warriors on their bikes and wanting to be there and visualizing that? Other things along these lines?

Mike – I think creating habits and behaviors was something. Even when I started going back to the gym, I wasn’t really doing a huge amount. But I think the routine of just getting up out of the flat and getting out and going there and regardless of the weather or how tired I was, it just had to be done. And I think that there are things that just have to become non-negotiable and other stuff has to go by the wayside. Like with the diet and I think having a strong sort of support system around you, people that are going to help you in that and accommodate things and understand if you can’t go out for dinner for somebody’s birthday. All of that stuff, that of course I’d love to be doing, but I’m on a mission here, so I’m sorry. I’ll see you at the next birthday. And you kind of have to just get a bit selfish as much as people don’t want to be that person, you kind of have to put yourself sort of in front and center. I think having that support a partner that you know was just there who actually I’ve got to say um was an absolute dream. She went vegan the day that I did and was like, I’m in this with you. She didn’t do like the juice cleanse and all the baseline or anything like that. But you know, it just makes it so much easier. Helping with obviously like preparing meals, but looking at recipes for things and getting creative with how we could do like a sweet potato curry, for example, and those sorts of things really helped,

Mike – I think having the understanding that things will get better, and I think recognizing when you’ve achieved something, even when it’s really small, I think can do just so much for your mental wellbeing and help you realize that there is a way out. And whilst it won’t all come at once, it might be okay, I’m feeling a bit of an improvement in my finger, that’s great. And I think it helps as well when you know you’re putting the hours in and the sort of hard graft and there’d be times where I’m like close to being sick on that bike because of how intense it is. All I’m thinking about is, well, think how good I’m going to feel this time next year. That’s just what gets me through it. I think recognizing those sort of small wins and helping them feel you’re kind of ongoing work that needs to go in. You just got to have the mindset of this isn’t easy and no one’s going to do it for you. And my experience with the sort of health care system and some physios that I’ve seen, it’s quite transactional. You’re in and there’s a moment in time they assess you and make a recommendation and then you’re gone. So then for the rest of that month, maybe or two weeks until you see them again, no one else is there to kind of coach you through anything. I think the research and purposefully educating myself on first, what the hell is this? I remember when that physio said you need to go and see a rheumatologist? I was like, I don’t even know what a rheumatologist is or what they specialize in. And I think really getting to grips with the disease. And of course, you know, the Internet can be a great place full of amazing things. It’s where I discovered the Paddison Program, which I’m truly grateful for.

Mike – But there’s so many like almost bordering sort of poisonous forums where all people do is talk about how terrible their life is and how, you know, they’re, I don’t know, maybe in a wheelchair. And you’re reading this stuff and thinking, Oh, God, this cannot be happening to me. So I’ve really drifted towards the science and the facts behind everything. I’ve not been a part of any, I mean, I don’t have Facebook and don’t really use social media a huge amount, but a lot of people said you should join a forum and you can talk about your experience with other people. I don’t want to talk about how rough I feel and I don’t really want to hear about how rough other people are feeling because it’s not benefiting. Some people, I think maybe do in terms of getting stuff off their chest, I’m not that sort of person. And I think action is what really drives me. So, yeah, I think. Of course, there are some things that will feel, maybe intuitive to be doing, but through the research and hearing from people like yourself and other people, whether it’s on podcasts or on YouTube, you can really get to, I guess, the end goal quicker. Because you’re learning from other people’s experiences, ways that they’ve overcome things. You’re thinking about the anatomy, you know how your muscles connect with your tendons to your bones. And, you know, it’s all of that sort of stuff that you then start thinking, okay, well, if this hurts, then these are the muscles that support that joint and I’ve lost all of that muscle, then I need to build it up. Therefore these are the exercises and all of that sort of stuff. So I think that’s what’s really, really helps.

Clint – One thing I enjoyed in something you were saying there is about how you were going so hard on the bike that you felt like you could vomit however you thought about in the future, how good you’re going to be in a year’s time. My question around that is, do you feel that generally as a community, we’re on the side of under-exertion with exercise than overexertion? And have you ever felt that you’ve over exercised or in your opinion, do you think that we should all be striving to be as absolutely as fit as possible, and as strong as possible?

Mike – So I feel like I’ve certainly, in those first few months, maybe over-exercised on a fairly regular basis. And I think it’s very easy to get excited when you start the Oh, I can I can do this now. And I’m the kind of person that just then takes it too far. But like I said, I’ve kind of learned from that. And even when my knees first blew up, it’s almost like your immediate reaction is, Oh, well, I better rest, I need to put my feet up and just relax. That Christmas that I mentioned when I was kind of falling apart, that’s what I did. I spent the whole of that period just with my feet up, hoping that somehow the inflammation would just, like, drain, I don’t know where it was going to be draining to. But I think very quickly it became apparent that that’s not an answer. And I personally, I think in terms of fitness, I’m probably fitter than I was before any of this. I’m definitely lifting I’d say maybe more weight than I was but I’m lighter. And I do think that I’ve seen significant results from really pushing it. That’s maybe not going to be the case for everyone, I don’t know. But I think there’s always a goal to beat in my head anyway. And once you’ve done something and maybe you’ve kind of scraped over the finish line and you know it is exhausting, then it’s like, okay, well there needs to be then progression on that.

With cycling in particular, you’re kind of measured by something called FTP and I can’t even remember what it stands for, Functional training percentage, something like that. I started relatively low, and these numbers may mean nothing, but generally, they’d say kind of double your body weight in kilograms, and that’s usually a good starting place. So I was sort of hovering in and around the, the kind of 150 mark and that’s now up to 250. That’s great and that’s hard, but then it’s like, okay, well, Olympic cyclists are doing like, I don’t know, their thresholds are like 400 or close to 500. And then it’s like, okay, well there’s still some room for improvement. So I think obviously I’m sort of a bit tongue in cheek there, but I think it’s dangerous just to kind of settle and just be like, okay, that’s enough, I’ve reached my maximum. And of course, like with strength training, there’s only ever going to be a certain amount that you can lift. But it’s then thinking about, okay, well, what’s my form like? Am I really now just focusing on the quality of what I’m doing? And in turn that may increase to, okay, now I can push out an extra rep. I think that’s that kind of continuous improvement is always something that I’m kind of striving for with my approach to all of this.

Clint – Yeah, love that and I completely agree personally across the board with everything that you’ve just said there about this. I believe that we can always be striving for improvement, even if our joints limit us to only very light weights and very low reps. We can work, as you said, on the quality of those reps and then we might find that if we go and try a little bit of a different exercise, that puts some emphasis on some of the supporting muscles that we can come back to that other exercise and we may do another half rep or another rep and so on. So, I do think that, that we should always be trying to do more and it doesn’t necessarily mean more weight, but just being able to demonstrate some improvements. It goes so far as for mental health to see some improvements in our body when often we are consumed with things that are worsening with our body or worrying about our body. And then what I love is that there is almost no upward limit for fitness. So when you’re talking about that, that marker with regards to cycling, yeah, if it’s not affecting the joints, then aiming for more and more endurance and fitness, then we’re talking about cardiovascular health. The studies are really clear on this. They make me laugh because the science is like in an area where they’re never in any other area, which is there’s no upper limit on how much fitness you can have that is beneficial for reduction of mortality. Like basically as fit as you can get equals the lowest risk of mortality. Right so dying from any cause. So and you just don’t see the sort of like the sort of guidelines around that. Normally they’re very conservative and stuff with just about every other aspect in life. But with fitness, if you can go into an elite zone, then your life is, tending towards excellent longevity and health. So, you’ve inspired me to get back on the bike. The things that come up with me, it’s time-consuming, it doesn’t feel like it’s not it’s maybe not strength building because it’s more of really high reps as opposed to muscle development. But this is not true, if you do it enough you build strength and obviously the endurance and it is a wonderful use of time if it results in results like you’ve had.

Clint – So I know it’s not the full picture, it’s just a part of it, but obviously, it helps. And I utilized a stationary bike tremendously after our wedding we went to the United States on a two-month, sort of post-wedding experience and stayed with my wife’s family. And I went to the gym every single day and I was on that stationary bike every single day. I was measuring how far I could walk, and each day I’d try and my goal was to walk past the stop sign at the end of the street. And it was only, I want to say like 100 yards. So I don’t know why I said yards. I was in America like maybe 70m or something without having to stop and adjust by sort of doing a quad stretch on my knee because I just had to do that all the time. Anyway, when my stationary bike every single day and walking every day, I was eventually able to walk twice around the lake, which was near their house, which was probably like a few kilometers without having to stop and adjust and stretch my quad. So it is a fabulous form of exercise, and around the time when I was trying to avoid a knee replacement in Florida a few years or three years ago, I went to the physio and the first thing they wanted me to do is get on the stationary bike like the after a calf muscle stretch. It’s like stretch your calf muscles. Okay, now get on the stationary bike. So I mean, a lot of arrows point to it and I still use it. I just do very, very high resistance, intense sessions so that my heart rate is beating out of my chest. But I’m also going to mix it up and do some more of what you’ve just described as well, because it’s it’s lovely to sweat, as you say, it’s so therapeutic. We know from the science coming out of China that it reduces heavy metals and pesticide-based toxins from the body through sweat. So we know it’s a therapeutic thing to be doing. And anyway, I just got on a bit of an excited rant about it because of what you were saying. What else do we need to know, Mike, before we wrap this up, are there some things that we haven’t said that you think are really important for people to know?

Mike – I think a lot of people go through the whole weight loss thing which I know causes a lot of reactions from friends and family. They look at you and just think, oh, my God, you are in a bad way. I think it’s just ignoring all of that and thinking the weight will come back in time and not needing to kind of rush to reintroduce foods and things just to kind of get back to that weight, because of what other people think. And I personally did realize that people were looking at you thinking, what is wrong with this guy? Like, he looks seriously ill. It will come in time. I think that’s something that definitely played on my mind for most of that period. But I’m kind of back towards my sort of previous body weight. Now it’s been a year, so it will come in in good time, don’t stress about it. And when you look in the mirror and you look like somebody else, um, then yeah, it’s, it’s all good and it’s what’s going on inside that matters the most.

Clint – That’s a good reminder, we all go through that. None of us are sort of impervious or invincible against that social impact, especially that makes you feel like you’re doing something wrong. Because as we’ve said in previous episodes, like most people aren’t thin in an otherwise fat and obese society unless they’ve got something seriously wrong with them because so few of us ever make dietary choices that aren’t indulgent. And so if someone’s skinny, they’re like, that person’s dying or something. They can’t possibly be just wanting to eat in a way that makes them look like that, right? Or don’t appreciate the cannibalistic effect on muscle tissue that inflammation has in parallel. And thirdly, the inability to do an adequate resistance training when your joints hurt like crazy. So a lot of things are all combining, to cause us to struggle with weight maintenance. And as you say, the weight will come back and it’s easier to put weight back on than it is to reverse dysbiosis and get rid of inflammation. So we do the hard task first and then we can work on the relatively easier task.

Mike – SOne other thing that and it became sort of a bit of a ritual, but definitely would help in terms of reducing that stiffness and the real severe pain I used to have like a hot bath maybe in the evenings and I’d actually listen to these podcasts as well. And I think just hearing one with the bath, once you’re out, you kind of feel like for a moment in time slightly better again. And um, from there I’d make sure that I wouldn’t be sort of exerting myself, I’d take it easy before going to bed. And it was one way to sort of just calm the system before going to sleep. But the podcasts I think really helped in terms of that sort of belief. And, you know, hearing that other people have had great results or on their way to achieving something. You can kind of get your mindset into, okay, this is going to be me and it’s just a matter of time. Taking note of all of the things that work for people and trying them, some things will work, some might not be for you. And yeah, I think belief is something that you’ve just got a hold on to and it’s a journey, but it, it will come as long as you’re making the right choices and you’re persistent and patient. I think that that belief will come true.

Clint – It’s so true, you have to picture yourself in that position. Hear examples just like you’ve said today of your own experience and they sit with you and they lift you and you actually feel this sense of, you know what, I’m going to emulate some of these things. And for a period of time, it might be a day or it might be a few weeks. There is definitely an elevated sense of, I’ve got this, come on, get out of your head and get into it. Whether it be the foods, the exercise. Whether it be to set some goals, to picture a future for yourself and indulge in that sense of, Yep, yep, there’s something to this, I’m going for it. And, and I believe you’ve done a wonderful job of paying that back now and putting this out there for people to hopefully have that feeling from listening to your experience. So Mike, thanks so much for sharing, and congratulations on the incredible transformation with your health and good luck with all that will come from here and everything that you want to achieve. I hope that your bike ride goes safely and successfully. And I look forward to getting an update from you when you sub yourself on for your short stem football match. So thank you.

Mike – Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Really do. Thank you.