We discuss in this interview:

• Scientific studies that support the use of ozone therapy
• Different methods for ozone intake
• Ozone machines
• Hydrogen therapy
• Use of ozone in conjunction with drugs and diet
• Phil’s success with his RA following the Paddison Program
• Rectal insufflation and it’s affect on the bowel
• Different forms of ozone
• Joy practice

Clint – Today, we are going to explore ozone therapy and the reduction of rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. I’ve got a guest with me who’s in a holding pattern now waiting for me to introduce him. But first, I’m going to go through some of the science of what exists online relating to ozone. Also, its ability to down-regulate inflammation for rheumatoid arthritis, in the example that I’ll start with. Then some other conditions as well that are relevant if you have inflammatory arthritis. Now, there’s a lot of studies that have been published around the benefits of ozone. It was really hard to find specifics for specific conditions because it’s still an emerging and complementary therapy. However, there’s one that constantly gets referenced amongst the science. When you’re looking for a randomized clinical trial of great credibility and it’s the one that I’ve got on my screen now. If you were looking at this and you’ll be able to read that title or if you’re listening to this podcast, it’s called Medical Ozone Increases Methotrexate Clinical Response and Improves Cellular Redox Balance in Patients with RA. There are a lot of concepts in ozone therapy that are complex. I was just talking to my guest before I hit record here. Then, we agreed that after listening to many podcasts on this topic. We also looked into this quite extensively and even writing about it in my book. The concepts are still a little bit ambiguous and different guests who speak on this as authorities have different ways of describing the effectiveness.

Clint – In this podcast, my guest is someone who is a user of ozone therapy like me and not one of the authorities. Today we’re going to talk about, how we use it, why should you buy a machine and the effects of using our ozone machines. But let’s just roll with some of these studies and we started with this one, which I just gave the title. It was a randomized clinical study with 60 patients who are divided into two groups. The first group was treated with methotrexate and ibuprofen. The other group was treated with the same dosages of methotrexate, ibuprofen, and with the addition of ozone. The route that was used to give the ozone is the rectal route. As it sounds, this is a tube into the backside and a controlled dose of low dose ozone, which is O3 instead of O2, and that is passed into the rectum. The consequence was that ozone plus methotrexate or the combination of the two reduced anti-CCP antibody levels, which is obviously a major deal. As well as increase the antioxidant system, meaning our ability to fight free radicals in the body. This is a major deal as well because oxidative stress is one of the key hallmarks underlying issues with rheumatoid arthritis. Also, an increase in glutathione, which is one of the key indicators of antioxidant health in the body. It is used to match the improvements that we’re seeing with the ozone treatment. This resulted from an improved score of disease activity and people felt better or less inflammation. This is only after 20 days of treatment. Just a few more studies before we welcome our guest onto today’s episode.

Clint – There’s was a study that was done on fibromyalgia. The results of this study were, 50% of symptoms were improved in 70% of the patients, and no patient reported important side effects. In conclusion in our knowledge, this is the largest study of patients with fibromyalgia, which was treated with ozone therapy. As it was reported in the literature, it demonstrates the ozone therapy is an effective treatment without significant side effects. In short, ozone therapy in 65 patients with fibromyalgia and effective therapy. On the other hand, let’s talk about osteoarthritis. This journal paper called ozone therapy as an integrating therapeutic in osteoarthritis treatment, a systematic review. The conclusion was the use of ozone produces clinically relevant benefits in patients with osteoarthritis. Then just to explore what’s going on a little bit, and we’ll talk about this with my guest.

Clint – A study showed that the use of ozone-weighted water. We’re drinking water in this instance that has been bubbled over a period probably of about 1/2 an hour with ozone gas. But with the rectal insufflation, which is the back end diversion and it is one of the most common ways of using ozone. This was done on people who had symptoms like flatulence, constipation, diarrhea, and all of these dysbiosis symptoms. This study showed a conclusion that the validity of the treatment of ozonized water combined with rectal administration of ozone, controls the symptoms linked to dysbiosis. Then to favor the restoration of proper environmental homeostasis at an intestinal microclimate level in adults. I don’t know why they just don’t say improve the microbiome. Basically, it adjusted positively the portfolio of gut bacteria and the mechanisms behind this are generally one of reduction of oxidative stress. In terms of what we’re going to be talking about, which is the reduction of inflammation in rheumatoid arthritis. We don’t have as much free radical overload that floods the body. It is because of the ongoing autoimmune activity at a joint level and also ozone is a bioregulator. If your immune system is too active, then it’ll bring it back under control. But if it’s insufficiently active, then it can regulate the immune system. This is according to the experts and in the science that I’ve read. It’s one of these things that some experts say sounds too good to be true, and that’s the words that they use often. But this is how they reported in the literature and the increase of antioxidants inhibits chronic inflammation in disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis. In which, oxidative stress plays a role in its pathogenesis. With all of that, it’s a pleasure to welcome our guest in this conversation and just riffing today. We’re going to talk about ozone and its impact on our lives. I’d like to welcome Phil from Boca Raton in Florida. Good day Phil!

Phil – Hey, Clint, I’m happy to be here.

Clint – You and I have known each other for a couple of years. You’ve been part of our support group, we’ve had fun talking about this topic in our support group and we also shared our experiences. I thought, who’s better to join me on a discussion about ozone than the man himself?

Phil – I’m happy to be here and I think that one thing that we share a kinship for is really looking at the science and wanting to understand the mechanisms. It’s not just looking at potentially another miracle cure, but something that we’ve tested ourselves in or something that the science is really promising on.

Clint – Today, I’d just like to exchange our approach with buying machines. Our frequency of using ozone as a therapy and the outcomes that we felt that we have achieved from using ozone. Also the downsides, the benefits, and just trying to answer any kind of questions that we think that people might have about it. How long have you been using ozone?

Phil – I first started using it about a year ago. My aunt lives in Brazil and she has rheumatoid arthritis. Also, ozone is a much more popular therapy in Brazil and in some other countries. She heard about this doctor who was using it, so she spent her hard-earned money to go every week for a year to get ozone. She did not have it rectally but actually injected it into her knees and into different joints. There are many ways to do it and she did that her way. She did that for a year in conjunction with a good diet and also movements. It took her from being bedridden to actually walking. She recovered because now she can dance and now she’s 70.

Clint – I’d like to learn just a little bit more about her story in just a second. But you’ve touched upon some really important concepts that we should address first of all. First of all, we should address that ozone can be administered in not just the ways that the studies I just shared showed, which is bubbling ozone into the water and then drinking it. In fact, it’s got to be distilled water even or up the backside, which we’re going to talk a lot about and I look forward to that. Then the other way is, as you described, we can have blood drawn from the body and then exposed to ozone in a chamber. After that, it is passed back into the bloodstream again and it’s like a circle or a closed loop. Then as you said, you can have ozone directly injected into joints. The only way we don’t want to get ozone into us is in the lungs again. Ozone is highly reactive and can trigger a cascade of chemical reactions that can destroy the lungs. We have to do everything but don’t put it into the lungs. Can you explain your story a little bit? Did she say that your grandmother had it also in her knees as well? Can you tell us about your grandmother in more detail, if you could? It is because you and I don’t have personal experiences as much with the injection into the knees. But I have a story about that and I will share that in a minute. It really got her up and running it and walking, right?

Phil – My aunt credits Ozone completely with helping her from being bedridden or incapacitated. She’s had rheumatoid arthritis her whole life she knows what not to eat. She came from a culture where you eat a lot of bread, cheese, and all kinds of meat. But she has learned over time to not eat fried food and there are things that she was sharing with me. She has some of these pieces together. Then, she found out about this doctor who was doing some therapy injections and she did it every week for a year. I think even her daughter that lives in London, is helping support her financially through that. It was something that really helped her to the point where she’s walking, exercising and, she is doing her Zumba.

Clint – Wow, she’s doing Zumba. The best place to go is if people are more interested in this topic or they have specific knee or shoulder or elbow issues. They can explore the potential use of a joint injected ozone with Dr. Robert Rowen’s YouTube channel. He is the most prolific in sharing the outcomes of these joint injection ozone procedures. I’ll share my screen briefly here and I’ll just bring up his YouTube channel. You can find him on YouTube and the channel name is RobertRowenMD. You can find in his YouTube channel just scores upon scores of testimonial videos of ozone therapy. It obviously goes way over and above just limited to joint injections, but we’re talking about all sorts of things here. You can go and check out that, and it’s a really interesting channel. I’ve spoken to Dr. Rown myself and if there’s enough interest in our discussion today with Phil. Then I will endeavor to get him onto our podcast for a future episode. Let’s talk a little more about the ways that you and I have been using this. This is a home machine and we both have invested in different home machines. These home machines are pricey, but you then have the luxury of being able to use them at your leisure without having to go to a clinic or without having to pay each time. Can you tell me about your purchasing process?

Phil – I am definitely in favor of buying and not renting with anything. I went to a clinic here in Florida to get ozone injections intramuscularly, and that’s another way that it could be administered. I also think some administrations of ozone are local and it’s going to help that joint. I went to the clinic here and I think I paid like $600 – $700 for six sessions. They were starting to help and it’s subtle, but it’s not something that I was noticing right away. But immediately I was like, I can do this more effectively. It is because from what I read, at least with the rectal insufficient is already powerful. I could do it as many times as I wanted. It is because as long as you have an oxygen tank and the ozone machine, you’re good to go. It was really simple and it was like if there was a $900 machine that could help me walk better. I was using a cane a year ago and then yesterday I was playing basketball. I was like sprinting on the basketball court and it’s incredible. Obviously, that is not all the effects of ozone because my body is healing itself and it’s being connected to other things. But if there’s a $900 machine that can help you feel good, buy it.

Clint – If this is the first time that people are hearing about this and there’s sort of a B.S. meter that is turned right up. This is why I wanted to share those studies at the start of this call, right? This is not like a brand new therapy that’s only just come out and that’s untested or unstudied. There’s a website called Ozone Without Borders and you’ll see there just endless studies. I just want to say that there are tens of thousands of studies that have been done. Most of them, as you said, has been done outside of the US because the US is not as quick to uptake the alternative therapy as some of the other countries potentially have been like Brazil. South America is a real sort of research hub for ozone work. The machine that I bought from a local distributor here in Australia and he’s a Russian guy. He was like, you need the ozone machine. It also comes with hydrogen therapy as well, which we won’t get into today. It is because that’s has a whole another scientific mine explosion. But anyway, he said this machine is worth money just on hydrogen alone. In fact, it actually doesn’t need an oxygen tank. The one I bought was super expensive because it converts the ambient air and the distilled water that you put into it. After putting all of that, it generates the ozone. Then if you flick a switch, you can have hydrogen if you want to go down that path. It doesn’t require the ozone and it doesn’t require an oxygen tank, but it’s an expensive and advanced machine. I bought that machine and I’ll share my experiences with using it after you talk about yours. The one that I bought was in the multiple thousands. I think mine was 5000 AUD, which is around $37OO or something like that. But here’s the thing and I was thinking that I need to know this stuff. If I’m sharing these kinds of topics and I’ll talk about them, it’ll be great and it’s kind of a business for me to know this kind of stuff. It’s a heavy investment in my education, experience, body, business, and our life. It matters with how I feel and what I know and my experience. We made the leap in terms of financial investment. How often did you start using it? How did you start it with a low dose or did you crank it up? How often did you start to think, I’m feeling a bit better?

Phil – I remember the first time that I bought it. I did my treatment in the clinic about a year ago. I must have bought it a few months later and I’ve had it for about 10 months. I was using it maybe 3 times a week and I was definitely getting better, but I think that I’m starting to get lazy. Then, what was also happening was I was starting to smell some of it. It is because sometimes when you’re using the like the catheter and it’s filling up with ozone. You do smell some of it and that freaked me out because I know that it’s not good for the lungs. Then I was like, maybe I need a new catheter and I wasn’t quite sure what was going on. I kind of stepped away from it. Then about 4 months ago, I finally emailed the company to see if there was something defective with my machine. I did ask, was it leaking or what is happening? Then he showed me how to troubleshoot the machine and I realized that it was working fine. After I did what he has shown to me, I did find that it wasn’t leaking. If there was a leak, it was totally minuscule, and I tested it and it was fine. Then I started using it about 4 days a week. I was in one of those periods where I was like starting to doubt the Paddison Program. I was starting to doubt and I was like, am I ever going to get better? I remember trying to walk around my neighborhood and walking really slowly because I get a lot of information to my knees. At those times, I could walk but only slowly like an old person. I could walk for half a mile, but I couldn’t dance or if there was ever a jerkier movement because it would really hurt. I knew that if I extended myself outside of the zone with my mobility, I would mess myself up for days after that. I was like, what is happening with my body or am I doomed to stay like this forever? I started doing the ozone 4 days a week and continuing with the diet. I wasn’t changing any diet, but somehow a few weeks later. I’m checking my pain journal, where I’m marking how much mobility I have. I’m like starting to dance a little bit, starting to move a little faster, and walking at a normal pace. I’m a DJ and I was surprised that I can pick up this 40-pound speaker. Maybe there’s a little bit of sensitivity in my elbow. Ever since that time when I started to feel like I was crashing or like I was going down. But when I was doing the ozone 4 days a week, it was 100 percent a turning point. I tracked everything because I keep a pain journal, I keep a body log, and I was posting in the forum. I was like, it’s not the broccoli that I’m eating maybe it’s the ozone.

Clint – I’m nodding in complete agreement and I believe everything that you’re saying with regards to pointing it towards the ozone therapy. Your drugs have also remained consistent, right? You’re only taking Plaquenil and that’s it, right?

Phil – Yes. I’m not like an ozone miracle person, I wasn’t taking Plaquenil, and I was just using a diet. Then I realized that I needed that extra boost and that took me 3 months to kick in. My dose was up on the Plaquenil too and it’s important to point out that. The ozone and the Plaquenil are in conjunction with each other.

Clint – Yeah. We looked at that study a moment ago with the ozone plus the methotrexate. One thing that was listed in the abstract that I didn’t readout. It is because I didn’t want to spend all day reading the abstract. But it said that the researchers believed that the ozone helped to make the methotrexate more effective. They went on to say that because they have similar therapeutic mechanisms. I think that’s a hard thing to say and I don’t know how they could come to that conclusion. But I can definitely say that in their study, it believed that the ozone complemented the ability of the methotrexate to essentially do its job. Then, what we might be seeing here is like a turbo-charged Plaquenil or some mobility of independent help from the ozone. Also, potentially a higher therapeutic benefit of the drug. We just don’t know, do we?

Phil – I know ozone as an old technology and I think it’s from the 30s or something. It’s just surprising to me that you can have so many stories or studies. I’m hopeful that it will be studied.

Clint – I’m sharing this because I believe in it. Let’s just jump now with talking about injections in the knees. I was going to Bikram yoga a couple of years back in Florida and it is not too far from where you live. There was a woman that came in and she was raving on about ozone therapy. Then, it picked up my ears because I’m a believer and I like the concept or the whole theories behind it. I just basically jumped into the conversation that two people were having and it was with the front desk staff member. The staff was talking to someone who was putting towels away in the sort of foyer. Then I said, can I interrupt here and ask you what’s going on? She’s like, for sure and she was all animated. Then, she told me her story or her journey. She said that 6 months ago she went to see an orthopedic surgeon. Then I said, my knees hurt? Right. Let’s put this in perspective, this person didn’t have rheumatoid arthritis and you’ll laugh at this. She asked her doctor and said, I’m having trouble playing my tennis on the weekends, should I get a knee replacement? The doctor said, no, I think we should do these ozone injections. Then she’s like, I’m up for anything. She said that she was getting an ozone injection into her knee and it was only 1 knee each week. She is also doing Bikram yoga 2 or 3 times a week. Now. let also frame this appropriately. Bikram yoga is a seriously therapeutic yoga class and it’s a knee restoration series. I believe she was doing Bikram prior to this story and with the ozone as well. But anyway, she said her knees were as good as gold after 6 months. She said, I had no pain whatsoever in my knees and I played tennis like I have no restrictions whatsoever. With this, it really made me amazed with this type of therapy. This is just one of these serendipitous little interventions that I witnessed. This is why we’re having a conversation is to share this as something that people might want to investigate. All we want to do is say, there’s something out there that has some studies behind it. You and I have some stories about this and we’ve got some anecdotal little funny quips.

Phil – I’ve done glutathione shots and I’ve also taken fiber. Also, I’ve taken the world’s strongest probiotics that come to you shipped in cold things. I’ve done everything and I had done so many things. But what I found is a plant-based diet, Bikram yoga, and the ozone has been like the Pareto principle. It is when you get 80 percent of the results from 20 percent of the things.

Clint – Yeah, that’s good! How do you feel now? You and I spoke for just a few seconds before we hit record, but tell us how your body feels compared to a year ago.

Phil – Clint, I don’t want to jinx this. A part of my story is that I found the Paddison Program 7 or 8 years ago. Then, I immediately went on the program and I cut out everything. (Inaudible) the elimination diet got better over a year and a half. From can’t walk through the grocery store to running, sprinting, playing soccer, and bench pressing a lot of times. I’m still having some issues, but being good. Then I went to Mexico, I ate a lot of fried tortilla chips and I really think it was all the oil in Mexico. It is because I went to Mexico feeling great and I was lifting really heavy. Then, I came back with a brace on my knee and it was insane.

Clint – How are you now compared to a while ago and you’re building up to that?

Phil – After my (inaudible) is doing fine, this is maybe 4 years into my healing journey. I’m still can go to the gym a bit, maybe not sprinting quite as much in soccer, but I’m mobile in dancing and stuff like that. Then, I moved to Portugal and I start eating a lot of fish. I was eating big fish like I was eating wild cod or sardines and these are supposed to be the healthy ones. It tasted so good, but I’m vegan for health reasons and it’s not for the taste. But anyway, I got worse and I moved back here in a pretty bad shape. I decided to do a full Paddison reset and Ill just eat things that you require. For example, rice, miso, no beans, garlic powder, sweet potato, and it was just a real reset. Even foods that I was sure that I could eat, I wasn’t eating them until I tested them and I did that for about 4 or 5 months. I have done that in Massachusetts at the beginning of the pandemic, and that’s about a year and a half ago. Then at that point, to give you an idea of my mobility. I was living in my dad’s basement and that means that I had to climb down 3 or 4 stairs to get down there. It was weird because there was no sunlight and it was super cold. But my dad had this amazing room on the second floor of the house. If I was mobile, I would have absolutely lived in a room with natural sunlight, with heating, or with an air conditioner. I would have gone to that, but I wasn’t able to walk upstairs on a regular basis. I was walking like an old person and I wasn’t using a cane, but that wouldn’t help me. My shoulders were hurting all the time and also some days with my elbow. I still can’t fully extend it like I don’t push myself, but my elbow has days where I can move them. If I extended more than that, I was messing myself up for days after that. In short, I was on eggshells and I was also depressed. It was the beginning of the current pandemic too and it was very much not good. Then, I came to Florida to be with my mom, the sunshine, mother’s love, ozone, and friendship helped a lot. A year ago, I was using a cane and walk like an old person. Now for the last 4 months, I can say it’s been a steady build of mobility and I’m already doing Bikram yoga. The first day that I went in, I was using a chair for like parts of the standing series like Triangle Pose. I needed a chair sometimes and a lot of folks aren’t used to seeing a chair in a Bikram yoga class. But a 100% I used a stool because I need to get into that class. Now, I was just from a Bikram yoga the other day andI can do balancing stick. It is when you’re standing on one leg and your back leg is up. Then, it’s straight and your whole front is like straight or a stick. I can do that and I can almost do the standing (inaudible) pose, which as you know for anyone who does Bikram those are pretty tough. I also saw that my mobility has improved because I was able to play basketball yesterday. My goal is to be able to start sprinting again and play soccer. I’m lifting up and I’m also a DJ, so I’m lifting or carrying up a 55-pound subwoofer. Some days I lift something heavy like that and I do get that sense that maybe that was a bit too much for me today. But this past weekend, I did it and that’s insane. It’s good to see that steady bits of progress.

Clint – Yeah, that feels good to listen to. You are doing Bikram in a studio and you’re allowed to go?

Phil – I’m in Florida, baby.

Clint – Well, let it be whatever you want to do. Have you managed to get the vaccines and what about the COVID scenario?

Phil – I’ve had the vaccines and I was a little sick for a day, but it was not a big deal.

Clint – You’ve got a master plan, as you said, the Pareto principle. You got the right diet, exercise, ozone going on, and these are some powerful interventions. Just to sort of stay on theme with our discussion on the ozone. I often think of ozone as I try to build my understanding of exactly the mechanisms behind it. It’s like a little exercise because we do know that exercise is actually oxidative, right? There’s this general acceptance that we don’t want to create too many free radicals in the body. It is because that actually puts a load on the body and our antioxidant reserves have to fight those free radicals. To a small extent, that’s a reasonable statement. However, what we find is that something like exercise, which is pro-oxidant. It means it creates oxidative stress in the body. Over time, actually builds up the level of antioxidants in our body. The ones that matter the most and it is not the vitamin C’s or vitamin E’s. We’re talking about glutathione, catalase, superoxide dismutase, and the ones that are in the cells to protect the cells, right? It is why in that first study it said that glutathione, which is the most powerful antioxidant we have, corresponds positively with the improvement seen when you are doing the ozone plus the methotrexate. As opposed to just using the methotrexate, where glutathione has no impact. There are some really positive things going on. You and I both have discussed is our view of it is that exercise causes some oxidation or some free radical production. But then the body goes, I need to create balance in my life and I’ve got to arm wrestle that back in under control. I’m going to build up my antioxidant reserves. It’s basically responding like muscle and regrowing more muscle to combat the challenge that’s been presented. I think that ozone therapy works the same way and I think you’ve got a little bit of a free radical attack. A little bit on the body and the body says we got this. Then it starts to respond to that and develop antioxidant reserves as a result. I mean, that’s what it seems to be doing according to the podcasts you are listening to. Also, the studies that I’ve read and our discussions in the health support forum.

Phil – I think that’s where it starts to get tricky when you start to look into ozone. If you look through any like mainstream or anyone who’s like second-hand writing about ozone and not the actual literature or the studies. But for anyone who’s commenting on the studies, they’ll go back to the FDA line. In which, ozone is a hazard or that there’s no therapeutic value. Also, if you breathe it in and it’s going to hurt you. It’s just interesting because if you isolate that it is an oxidate. Then you could say, this is bad. But if you take the right dose, it creates this massive tidal wave of the antioxidant response, like throwing a rock in the water. Then you realize, there’s more to this story. Honestly, it took me reading about the mechanisms with ozone and understanding that this is a different type of therapy. For example, eating blueberries or something less invasive. It is because who wants to do rectal insufflation? No one wants to do that procedure and I call it my iPhone charger. No one wants to put in their ozone iPhone charger up their bum. But I was like, all of this science makes sense and it took some convincing.

Clint – Let’s briefly touch upon how we actually do it. It is because I know everyone’s just dying to hear this. The process involves pretty much just getting a very small insertion piece of plastic that comes with the device, which you’re not meant to share with other users. Then a little bit of lubricant and then away we go, that is pretty much the process involved. For my machine, it takes about 14 minutes and I just stand up. At first, I wasn’t sure how to go about it, but I just stand there and I get work done on my phone. I like literally reply to people’s emails and stuff on the phone. Once it started to beep, it means that it is already done. One thing that I’ve found, it’s not uncomfortable at least with the size of the insertion point in my device is small. I would describe it as very mild with the discomfort. Also, one thing I’ve found highly effective is that it acts exactly like an enema. Have you ever done a regular water enema where gravity-fed water? A regular-style enema at home is like a hot water bottle-sized bag that you fill up with water. Then you hang it above your head, gravity feeds that water, and it can go up the backside. I’ve found that the ozone treatment has the same effect in that you need to go to the bathroom afterwards. It’s a cleansing bowel movement afterward and it kind of takes a while.

Phil – It takes a while and that’s the one thing I don’t like about it. I budget 5 minutes for the actual treatment because mine’s a bit faster. Then I’ve got to bring a book to the toilet because it takes another 20 minutes.

Clint – I have a theory around this and it has something to do with the bowel. Like 100 years ago, they thought a bowel is just a place where the body reabsorbs water back in the body to preserve water. It is because it’s so crucial to our existence, right? They thought that it was the main purpose of the bowel until they worked out. They were like this is where the fermentation of fiber occurs and all of the immunity in our body occurs. It turns out to be probably one of the most important aspects of our whole existence. But my theory is around the potential delay of bowel movement after having the therapy. The exposure to the gas actually just dries out some of the moisture that’s in the backside. Then, we should be really well hydrated before we do the treatment to not have a delayed reaction with the bowel movement after the treatment. It is because I’ve had that same experience.

Phil – I’ll try that and I’ll just drink more water? It is because I haven’t tried drinking before the therapy. Also, I just ordered a lot of water bottles just for this therapy.

Clint – Definitely. Listen to this as a really interesting little home experiment. When my kids are sitting on the toilet and I’m getting impatient because they’re halfway through poo. They just basically think that now’s a good time to talk about their favorite TV show. I who doesn’t want to wait any longer, I go and get them water. Then I said, you must drink the whole glass of water. Then they’re like, I don’t want to. Then within 3 minutes of them finishing the water, bang outcomes and the rest is out. The body says, I have enough water bang on. Also, I really swear by it. If you are struggling with bowel movements and I’m not saying you are. But after drying out or having the gas in the rectum, just give it a shot.

Phil – It is a pro tip.

Clint – I know it’s going to work because I’ve noticed as well that sometimes it’s a little dry. I also think that it must be from the gas.

Phil – Yes, it feels that way.

Clint – Yeah, it’s different. What do we need to cover before we wrap this up? What other things should we have discussed?

Phil – I think it’s a good thing and it did take me a few months of doing it regularly. It also took a while to really have a measurable improvement. Sometimes you’ll have subtle improvements that you don’t notice on the day to day and maybe that’s happening after a few treatments. Sometimes you just wake up, you don’t feel bad and then you forget that you ever felt. For example, I can wake up with no pain and then just forget that for the past 3 months I’ve been in pain. It’s just now this blockage is removed and that’s where things get tricky. It is because you start to slide as some of these good healthy habits and that’s just part of my story.

Clint – I don’t have the details of my machine with me. If people are interested, they can just email me and find out. Actually, I don’t know the details about the machine, but it came from a distributor. But a very good researching mind, which is another friend in our community who’s in the ozone as well. He managed to track down the original supplier of the machine that I have that has come via my distributor. I can track that down somewhere because mine’s got no labels on it. It’s not like my machine has a brand. If people are interested in my machine, they’ll need to email me because I don’t have the details offhand. What’s your machine in case they want to go down your path?

Phil – Yeah, it’s called Simply O3. There’s this guy called, Micah – The Ozonaut. He has a cool YouTube channel where he describes this stuff.

Clint – Yeah, that’s cool. For anyone who’s interested more about this go to Dr. Robert Rowen. Go check out his YouTube and he’s also been on lots of different podcasts. He’s kind of the main in the US or in the trenches using this kind of guy. Do you or have you ever encountered the name, Shallenberger? I forgot his/ her name and his/her work.

Phil – Is it the guy who did the ozone miracle book? There’s someone who wrote a book that compiles a bunch of research.

Clint – Yeah, that’s it! The guy we’re talking about is the same guy. His name is Frank Shallenberger, MD and he wrote The Ozone Miracle. You can buy that on Amazon, if you like to read about that book. He also appears on a couple of different people’s podcasts and you can listen to that.

Phil – If there’s one more thing to mention, it is something that was posted in the forum and it was really helpful. It was about the different forms of ozone. It is because my understanding is that the ozone native water is in terms of it changing your global antioxidant or your oxidative stress. With that, drinking is not going to help that much. The reason why I do rectally is because it’s kind of a superhighway to many parts of the body regulating the immune system. It’s like a direct route to global oxidative change. Then someone like Madonna or very rich people, they’re doing the Major Auto Hemotherapy, and it’s like a thousand dollars. The question is, didn’t you talk about that with your doctor? He was saying maybe eight or I think it is something like 20 rectal insufflation is equals to a thousand dollar treatment like the Major Auto Hemotherapy.

Clint – Exactly, that is the exact mathematics. Let me tell you the way that he put it because your math is perfect, but let me tell you how he stated it. He said that the Auto Hemotherapy, which is the way where we talked about where you get connected via a needle, it pulls, and then that a pressure. It is literally a reverse pump that pulls the blood out of you. By the way, I’ve got an awful experience with that. I had one of these freak accidents that you hear about every now and then that can happen in a medical setting. I had something go wrong, which I won’t go into too much detail about. But something went wrong when I tried to have my first ever Auto Hemotherapy ozone experience. I ended up with ozone in my lungs and a coughing fit that lasted 45 minutes. Whilst this was extraordinarily rare, it can happen. According to Robert Rowen, the therapeutic benefits of having that procedure done correctly without incident is a 10 out of 10. Also, having it done rectally is only a 1/2 out of 10, and that’s 0.5. But Dr. Rowen is a bit of a character and I think he’s 70 years old. He’s just basically a conqueror of problems via this approach. I spoke to him and I said, this Auto Hemotherapy is really expensive. Then I said, would it be cheaper to buy an ozone machine? He just goes, I would buy a machine in order to save money. Then I asked, would you recommend doing it every day? Then, he agreed with my question of doing it every day. In short, I should go, buy that machine and use it frequently. Then, it should be good for disease maintenance. Then he responded, I would and that answer really stuck in my mind. The way he responds to these questions is so funny. Anyway, a 1/2 versus a ten, but if you do it every day or most days. Then the cumulative effect is going to be valuable and I think that’s what you’ve experienced. As I said, I didn’t intend on stopping you and I think the thing also balances the microbiome. I did a stool sample months ago, and the stool sample showed that I had some elevated pathogens. Those are some things that show up on a test and you don’t know what the heck they are. These random strains of things, but when you go into the studies on ozone. It shows that it’s highly effective at eliminating viruses and pathogenic bacteria. I just think it’s like a disinfectant against these kinds of things.

Phil – Yeah, it is used out as a disinfectant in certain cases. My intuition is that not every therapy is going to be ingesting something or like taking the pill. Some are more intrusive and through that, they’re acting in completely different mechanisms. They’re helping you in completely different ways and that can be really powerful. It feels interesting and it’s just kind of like you’re charging. I feel a little bit of a wave of energy when I do it and I know it’s big in the biohacking community. With that biohacking, I can remember the name Dave Aspery.

Clint – Yeah, go and check some of the best podcasts about this topic. Dave Aspery has some views and opinions that I disagree with, but I can tell you that Dave Asprey has an enormous audience. I can quote him as saying, whatever you get hit with any kind of infection, a virus, or basically anything that brings you down. He said if you’ve got an ozone machine and an infrared sauna, you’re going to knock everything out, right? So that’s where he is at and he has an ozone machine, an infrared, and so on. He said, whenever I don’t feel right I would go with the therapy. Then he said, I’m perfect the next day. You’re doing both because you got an ozone machine and Bikram.

Phil – I also have sunshine and don’t overestimate the sunshine.

Clint – Exactly. If anyone’s in your area, you run some parties and things don’t you? You have a big social life, right?

Phil – Yeah, I’ve got two things that I’ll talk about. The first is that I was a real lonely kid growing up because I had borderline Asperger’s syndrome and I was very awkward with hello’s and goodbyes. It wasn’t until I started going to concerts that I realized that I could make friends through music or through the music scene. With that, it was the first place I really found community and I found someone to hug. Also, someone who was looking in my eyes and just say like, you’re accepted here. I threw parties for a long time and now I don’t do parties anymore. I do play workshops that are all about singing, improv, dance as a way to unleash your inner child. If anyone’s interested in that, I’ve been writing for the last 8 months. I’ve been writing a book about the art of conscious nightlife. Also, how to use events, design, and nightlife culture that connects people on an authentic level. It’s not just about getting wasted or chatting up some cutie at the bar, but it’s about real human connection.

Clint – I love it! I’ve seen some of the photos that you’ve posted and it looks super fun. I mean, there are people laughing in the photograph. People are in their like moment of the photograph being taken. There’s laughter, clapping, and also dancing. It’s just flooding of joy coming out of these pictures.

Phil – We all need a joy practice, especially collective joy. In my opinion, joy or happiness is very important.

Clint – Of course, man. Do you have a website people can go to in case they want to join in there in your area?

Phil – Yeah, totally! Its www.philsantos.net is the best place to go and just get connected.

Clint – They can look forward to having an experience where it’s very social and it’s a sort of a nightclub sort of vibe.

Phil – Not not a nightclub, it’s social and more of a workshop environment, that’s what I’m doing these days. I did all the dance parties and I’m not really drinking anymore. I’m very much more of a workshop kind of guy these days. It’s all the ages and everyone is allowed to join. It’s important for people to laugh together and it’s a good thing.

Clint – I tell you what, you should do something online. You should broadcast these online and get people involved globally. It is because don’t limit yourself to just locally in your area. If you did these things and you leveraged communities like our RA community, we’d love it. You’ve just got the greatest smiling face and we would love to have your energy lead us through some fun.

Phil – Yeah, let’s do that. We’re growing our company into the corporate team building space now, which is all virtual. I would love to host an event for the RA community.

Clint – It going to be fun and you’ll make us laugh. Also, have us moving, just share lovely energy, and that’ll be fun. Well, thank you, and congratulations on how far you’ve come. Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing today.

Phil – A thank you so much for your heart, Clint. It shines through so bright and your heart is just so bright. But it shines through and I’m very appreciative of it. I appreciate the work you’ve done and you always keep it scientifically grounded, and that’s good stuff.