Even you’ve had rheumatoid arthritis for a very long time, or if you are on multiple disease-modifying drugs or biologic drugs, the Paddison Program can lead to dramatic reduction in pain levels and drugs intake.

We discuss in this interview:

• Cathy’s inspirational journey and impressive results with the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid Arthritis
• The implications of having a condition for a long time
• Physical activity in the Paddison Program
• Which foods to eat
• Managing medications
• The importance of mindset and making choices
• Sleep habits
• Compartmentalized gratitude
• Support and encouragement

Clint – If you’ve had rheumatoid arthritis for a very long time, or if you are on multiple disease-modifying drugs or biologic drugs. And you’re looking for an inspirational story where you can learn how someone has reduced their required medications, reduced joint pain and symptoms, and is now happy and smiling despite having been diagnosed way back in 1988. Then today’s guest is for you. I’ve got Cathy, she’s an Aussie. How are you, Cathy?

Cathy – I’m good, thank you. How are you?

Clint – I’m doing wonderful. I always get a bit of buzz of excitement before these episodes because, I don’t know more than a few percent of what I’m about to hear. So it’s fun for me to hear about your journey. And you’re raring to go here with lots of insights for others and to share some wonderful things that they can do and what’s worked for you. But let’s just get a before and after summary here to kick us off. How are you feeling right now, today, compared to before you started the Paddison Program?

Cathy – Pretty amazing. Really. Look, I have, uh, no pain, probably, if anything, a little bit because it’s stress, right? This is not my normal, uh, day job so this is a bit, you know, nerve-wracking. But before I started the Paddison Program, every morning I would wake up and go, I’ve got to get my feet out, you know, I’ve got to get out of bed. Um, and I just got to a point where, you know, and it was always that way I just wanted to cut off my feet. Well, of course, you know, that’s not realistic. Um, and but the pain was constant, it was always there. And it was always a case of don’t ask me what my pain is like because it at the back of my head, you just have to, you know, get going, you know? And then I started, I was very grateful our daughter bought the program for me and, um, I tried lots of other things. So I started it, and after two days of the juicing, um, I went to get out of bed in the morning. And because I’ve tried lots of things, you know, there’s that, um, you want something to work, you want to be out of pain. No one wants to be in pain. I started that and the next day thinking, oh, perhaps the placebo. But you kept trying and. If I stay on the program. I have no pain in my feet. The only time it plays up is if, you know, I eat something that’s got gluten in it and my big toe flares up, you know, there’s for me pretty immediate triggers. But to go from severe pain constant to no pain is just it’s amazing. It’s hard to describe.

Clint – Only those of us who know the experience of the shift of pain, can relate. It’s just euphoric, isn’t it?

Cathy – It is. And the pain of rheumatoid is just gut-wrenching.

Clint – Yes. Now you’ve had this condition, 1988, that’s a long time. Well, what consequences have you experienced physically as a result of the of the condition?

Cathy – Okay. I have, uh, deformed fingers, deformed form toes, not to the same extent. I have my right hand fused, and my ulna’s have been removed. I have both shoulders replaced, both knees replaced. Uh, my ankles were replaced, and then they’re now fused. So all up, six artificial joints. Um, I don’t have it in my hips. The only place. Um, but. Yeah, that’s I suppose, the main stuff.

Clint – And of all of those, is there any that has like what I find interesting in my own observation and this is just chit chat now is, is like my elbows don’t straighten. Yet that causes me absolutely zero kind of concern or worry or self-consciousness. But like you, I’ve got some degree of damage in my fingers which work fantastic. But I do have some damage from several years of uncontrolled RA. I get more self-conscious around my hands than I do the elbows even though the elbows are probably more significant, it’s hard to say. But is there an area that you have self-consciousness around? I think it’s helpful for our audience just to hear us talk about this.

Cathy – Yeah, yeah. Um, I suppose, you know, and, um, originally I was nursing, so I nursed people who had rheumatoid. So when they said that I had arthritis, um, you know, head in the sand stuff, I didn’t want to know or talk about it because I can remember what that was like. And that was sort of like 1977, so there was no medication and as you can imagine, these were severe old people with damage. Um, and then anyway, after rheumatoid and had to have career change, I did counseling, so did training and did, um, become a counselor and did a fair bit of counseling actually with children. And it was really interesting, I’d have a child come into my room and we’d talk about confidentiality, you know, not keeping some secrets. Anyway, um, and it was really interesting just watching them look at my hands. And I would break the ice by saying, yeah, my hands are a bit funny or they would say, what’s happened to your hands? You know why they like that? And I said, oh, look, a long time ago, um, my hands got really sick and they ended up like that, but they don’t hurt anymore. And I can still do lots of things. I just do it differently. So. Yes, that’s my hands. We have a granddaughter who’s eight, and I find Ziploc bags and things like that really hard. And she just goes, oh, you just do this and I go, yeah, but I just can’t. She goes, oh yeah, that’s right, with your hands. So I think it’s also about um, being upfront and especially with children, you know, the more you’re upfront and open, it’s not scary anymore. And I suppose they are what they are. I can’t hide it. Whereas elbows you can put a shirt over.

Clint – Yeah, that’s right, you feel more vulnerable don’t you? You do feel more vulnerable.

Cathy – So I have apparently what they call, uh, typical zebra friend, zebra thumbs, I don’t know if you can see that. It’s really funny, the other day, our son, we were doing something and I’d actually cut my thumb and he said, oh, yeah, your chicken wing thumbs. And I hadn’t even. So I suppose I do look a little bit like chicken wings. Yeah. One has to have a sense of humor in these things. Can’t change it.

Clint – That’s right. You know, I, uh, describe my ailments as, uh, as battle wounds sometimes, and I have pushed things a little over the years out of the under the umbrella of experimentation. I’ve thought I kind of, uh, I just want to try this and try that because I feel like it could help a lot of people if I make a discovery on this. I think that as a result of that, I’ve probably pushed things with inflammation levels in the early days, most definitely. So we end up with some battle wounds, we move on. And now let’s talk about what has helped to dramatically lower the inflammation. And what is it that you have been doing either in or outside of our program that really works for you?

Cathy – With the program it’s about, the juicing, it’s about the diet. I now walk three mornings a week and probably do about 5 K’s. Um, I’ve always loved my garden, and my garden is something that I can you can bury your head in the sand, you know, so to speak. Um, you don’t have to talk to anyone. You can just dig and pull out weeds. Um, you also see something for what you’ve done. So, um. Yes. Doing that, I’m not working now, but I was working, you know, five days a week. So the program has just given me more energy, uh, more ability to exercise, it’s changed my mindset. And I’ve also found that the program, you know, food wise, is manageable. It’s different, but it’s manageable, you know, um, and if that’s the worst thing or the hardest thing I’ve got to change in my life and have no pain, I am so grateful it’s, you know, in the scheme of things, it’s easy.

Clint – Have you gone through a lot of the eating sequence so that now you have quite a diverse range of foods? Or do you have quite a restrictive range? Could you give us some examples of things that you are able to eat?

Cathy – Yeah, sure. Look, um, we often do juice of a morning, you know, a green juice. Lunch is often a salad bowl. And, like, you know, it might be a lentil curry at night sometimes. And I have also been able to stretch it even a bit further in the fact that I seem to be able to eat, um, salmon. You know, that we don’t use oils, anything like that, it’s more steamed. Um, and I can have that once in a blue moon, so that it’s not like, oh, no, I can’t eat that, I don’t do this, you know? Because not only do you feel self-conscious, but then when you have to say to people, it’s almost like I’m a pain in the butt because, you know, I won’t eat this and I won’t do that, and, you know, all the other things, whereas I really struggle. There are lots of things, no, there are some things that I just can’t do. And I struggle with the word can’t because I think for a lot of people or our society, it’s like I’m choosing not to and to actually have that mindset in my head, it’s okay because I physically can’t, if that makes sense. And I probably haven’t said, you know, so much. But also I think doing a program. Yeah, it’s just changed so much.

Clint – Awesome. Let’s talk about it because I’m just enjoying listening to you and just having a chat. We didn’t go into the specifics of the medications. Let’s just dive into that for a moment. Can you just try and remember all the different types of meds that you’ve taken in the past before I have another question?

Cathy – Do you want me to tell you what I was on?

Clint – Can you remember how many, like, have you? Have you got the names sitting in your mind? Yeah.

Cathy – Oh. Well, um, originally they started me on, like, um, anti-inflammatories, and I think it was something like that, way back then. I didn’t really start methotrexate until 1992, because I went to one rheumatologist, it wasn’t a good experience. I thought, I’ll do this myself. So I went naturopath, things like that. Um, the thing is that my disease was such that, um, I was probably still having oils, still having some meats and things like that, but I got down to 48 kilos. Um, and my knees were so swollen, I really struggled to sit, so then went to another rheumatologist. So that was 1992. Um, she started on me on methotrexate, prednisolone, and anti-inflammatories. Um, so being on lots of those things and there was another one, um, starts with s, so I can’t say it properly.

Clint – Sulfasalazine?

Cathy – Yeah. It didn’t agree with me, so I didn’t do that. Um, had lots of cortisone injections, you know. Um, so yeah, they were the main drugs. And then even with those, um, and after surgeries and things like that, the disease was still pretty rapid. And then I think it was about 2006, I started on Humira as well as, of course, all the others. Um, because before I started on that, I had it really bad in my neck and I couldn’t lift my head off the pillow of the morning, so I couldn’t get out of bed by myself so my hubby would have to lift me out of bed, uh, help me shower things like that. And our kids were amazing, you know, this is all they’re known. Um, uh, so, yeah, starting on Humira. And I was also on another drug called Neoral, which is what they use for Kidney transplant recipients to stop kidneys being rejected. So I was on that for quite a while too, and then it got to a point where it wasn’t working either. So then went on, um, the Humira injections and then from there, uh, they got to a point where they weren’t working, so then started Enbrel. So up until 2019, when I started your program, I was on Enbrel, anti-inflammatories, and methotrexate. Um, and then after doing your program, uh, it was probably the following 12 months I had I brought my methotrexate down, you know, with specialist knowledge. And, um, the thought was that it’s such a small dose to stay on it, you know? Um, but for me, and as it turned out, we went somewhere, left methotrexate at home and I thought, well, I’m fine. So I stayed off of it ever since. And it’s just amazing. And, you know, it’s all because of your program. So yes. Thank you.

Clint – Amazing. Interesting how you left the methotrexate at home. That’s exactly how I ended up coming off it as well. I left it in another country. Funny that, but our brain says to ourselves, hmm, subconsciously, let’s choose to forget that mine and I think I, I think I hear from you, too, uh, was an absolute innocent or at least consciously innocent thing. I just actually forgot to put it in the bag. It was just sitting in a cupboard in a kitchen. Um, not somewhere where it was easy to grab before we went to the airport. Did you notice anything coming off the methotrexate? Any changes at all?

Cathy – No, because I think I was feeling good anyway, and my dose apparently was so small that perhaps really for a long period of time, perhaps the methotrexate was not really doing anything anyway, I don’t know. But yeah, no, it’s not like I went off it and thought, oh jeepers, I can’t wait till the next week, I need this again. I didn’t feel like that. Whereas sometimes, you know, with if I stretch out my injections too far, um, you know, it says, yeah, I notice it a bit, but at the end of the day, you know, I’ve had it for a long time, a lot of damage. And I still have rheumatoid.

Clint – Do you feel like now with the Enbrel plus the program, you’ve found the perfect balance to now? Would you say that your disease activity now is probably the lowest aggressiveness that it’s been?

Cathy – Definitely. Yes, yes. Um, that’s why I keep doing it, I keep doing the program and look, every now and again I’ll have a coffee and things like that. I’ve told other people about the program and some of them have said, oh, I can’t, I can’t not have that or I can’t not have this, but I suppose, um, you know, I don’t know the right word, but I suppose I was at a point when our daughter bought it for me, you know, I’d had it so long, I was willing and have been to try anything, you know. Um, that’s. And I suppose at the end of the day, I can only do what’s right for me. And, you know, it’s trial and error. Um, but I know what works, so of course I’m going to keep doing it.

Clint – Yeah. It’s a no brainer isn’t it? Do more of what works. And given that what you’re doing isn’t exactly, I mean it’s not like you’re doing anything evil or bad or harmful. It’s only just putting good things into your body and having a good lifestyle habits.

Cathy – Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So at the end of the day, it’s pretty easy, isn’t it? And as you say, it’s a no brainer. Why would you not? Because, you know, I don’t want to go back to fearing getting out of bed every morning. Three days a week, I get out, put my runners on, and go for a walk. You know, I or in the garden or do stuff like that, you know. Um. And I don’t have to go push that pain at the back of my head to just keep going, it’s just not there. And when it’s there, then I think, what have I eaten or what’s happening that that’s hurting and it might be been somewhere, eating something or it might be stress. From my elbows, it’s stress, because they’re the last of my own joints that’s not replaced and I wouldn’t worry about hands and all the rest. So I think too, it’s when and I suppose that’s when I went back on to the Enbrel weekly. I was having trouble, and nobody wants to not do that. That’s a basic life necessity.

Clint – There’s something that I think has been lost to the audience because we just talked about it for like one minute before we hit record here. Is that you have actually attempted on the program to then extend your Enbrel injections from one week to two weeks to three weeks to four? And what you mentioned just before we hit go here is that that proved to be a little bit asking too much of your body and that just sticking with the weekly which you were doing beforehand is the right approach.

Cathy – It is for me, and it’s also means that my blood, like my ESR, has gone down to I think it’s either 3 or 4 and my CRP is 4 or 5. The rheumatologist is really happy, I’m really happy. And I suppose it’s seeing on blood tests, it’s not just me saying it’s good. I’ve actually got results that are saying that it’s good. Because the other thing is, too, I don’t want to have my joints flared up so much that I’m doing more damage. I can’t, you know, so by doing the program and doing the medication, how I am at the moment, um, it’s working for me.

Clint – Tell us, Cathy, what’s on your list there. What is it that you wanted to share today in addition to, I’ve learned already that you’ve got an active lifestyle three times a week despite your couple of replaced knees there. You get out and you walk a lot, you garden most days, you’ve got a daily start with green juices. And you’re eating now advanced what we call advanced or, uh, more reintroduced foods, things like lentils and beans and so on. And I presume lots of rice and vegetables and other things. Clarify if I’ve made any mistakes there. And what else would you like to share that’s working for you?

Cathy – Let me have a little look. I’ve covered some of that. Ah, and I suppose it’s also about learning that you have choices. You know, I learnt early on, uh, I had our kids were young and I had choices. I could sit on the couch and go, life’s not fair, I hate this. But then my thought was, what example are I setting for my kids? So our son and daughter, you know, my daughter said this to me once. You raised us to be independent, self-sufficient young adults or people, and we are. So I suppose it’s also about choices. It’s about choices whether I do this program or not. It’s about choices of my mindset. It’s also about choices that I’ve had some really, really dark days, and it’s about then what I do with those choices. Sometimes it’s about talking to people. And I think, too, because rheumatoid pain is very personalized, it’s not something that you can talk or explain to somebody. One, because lots of people have arthritis. So a lot of people put rheumatoid into arthritis. And also finding the right people to support you. As I said, I had a really bad time, um, and had an amazing clinical psychologist, and she’s probably the first person that ever said to me, I hear your pain, that you’re in a lot of pain, but promise me that before you do anything severe that you write letters to everybody that you would leave behind. Well, of course I couldn’t do that. So, again, I suppose it’s all about choices. You know, it’s about mindset and yeah, all that sort of stuff. So I’m sorry if I’ve gone off track.

Clint – No, not at all. No. It’s very interesting. The choices thing is fantastic. We all have that option, don’t we? At any moment we can choose, like you gave the example of the couch or the footpath. You’ve got you’ve got the takeaway food or putting something in the rice cooker.

Cathy – Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Clint – You’ve got the woe is me, my life stuck sucks I’m a victim and why did I deserve this? To a thought of what can I do right now to reduce inflammation?

Cathy – Oh, definitely. And I think, too, that sometimes we almost need to be in that little hole, not too deep just a little hole. To go Okay, I’ve got to make some choices, and I think, whether you have rheumatoid or anything, um, we all have days when it’s like it’s bit harder to just get going. And I think that’s the other thing about mindset. It’s also about understanding that everybody in life has something to deal with. I have the advantage of actually knowing what mine is, right? So therefore it’s what am I going to do about it. For other people, I can look at other people and I’m sure we all do, and go, oh, wow, you look like, you know, you’ve got it easy or a great life or all the rest, but I don’t know what they’ve been through. And I also don’t know what’s around the corner for them. So it’s also about what am I doing for me that works so that my life’s the best I can possibly have. Again. Choices.

Clint – I love it. All right. Let’s keep you talking. When you talk I’m interested. Give us some other some other things that really work for you. We’ve just touched on mindset, we’ve got some exercise there. Let’s talk more about the gardening. How often do you garden? How effective is this, or if at all, for helping you to feel better with your joints?

Cathy – Uh, um, nothing better than getting a pair of cicadas and chopping a bush that’s grown too big. It’s a bit of a pain because I can’t lift the arms up very high, so I can’t do very hard. But you know where we tie any bush, rose plant, whatever else that’s fit our head together. And, you know, roses are great every year you have to prune them, right? So for me I suppose gardening is that thing. Even if the only pulling out weeds and they come back in a fortnight, I can at least see where I’ve been. We can cook meals, we ca do all those other jobs and you wash the floor, you know, five minutes later kids come in or something happens and, you know, whereas gardening, it’s just yeah, different. And also, um, you can have the music going, you can listen to a book, you can be in another mindset. It’s hard to focus on your pain when you’re focusing on something else.

Clint – These are great insights. What about your sleep? Have you done anything to improve your sleep? Any sleep habits that you adhere to? What’s your quality of sleep like? And some insights. Anything that’s helped you on that front.

Cathy – I suppose when I’ve had times, when I’ve had broken sleep because of pain, you wake up during the night with pain. For me, it’s not beneficial to just stay in bed. I get up, make a cuppa, read a book, I’m a bit of a bookworm. Again, focus on something else. I try and give myself a time frame, but when you’re in a really good book, I’ll just read another chapter and time goes on. But most the majority of time, I’m not having to do that very often now. I notice if I haven’t done a lot of physical activity, sleep is harder. So, I crave to do gardening if I had my way, I’ll be at gardening all the time. But that’s not always realistic. And, you know, um, people, I think to family around me sort of think that sometimes I overdo it, you know, and I’m doing too much. Um. But I’d rather do heaps, sleep well and have a rest day the next day. Then do little bits. Um, feel like I haven’t achieved anything. And then, um, yeah. So yeah, sleep is pretty good. When I do things that are good for me.

Clint – Exactly. You shift the odds of success in your favor by doing the activities during the day, like we do with children, to wear them out so they sleep well at night. That’s a simple principle.

Cathy – It is. It is. I suppose you’re asking about, you know, other things. And yes, you’re talking about sleep, but I think it’s also for me, it’s that gratitude. You know, I think that, uh, with pain, it’s very easy to go again, you know, back to, um, this is horrible and all the rest. And I’ve, you know, read lots of different stuff, but it’s also about being grateful for little things. I have my hearing or I can I can walk and do that stuff because, um, yeah, a lot of people can’t. So, again when you choose to then have some gratitude. And yeah, it doesn’t always work every day. Not every day is, you know, easy peasy. But it’s also about just changing that mindset. Because when your mind is in a better place.

Clint – Yeah, exactly. I like the concept of the word compartmentalized gratitude. I think that could really help us all. Well, let’s say, for example, if you’re comparing, say, just the with the focus on your issue as being the comparative point. And let’s say, well, that person doesn’t have some joint replaced and struggling with pain or a long period of time with inflammation and so on. Therefore their life is better, as you said. However, if you take it away from that particular category and look at a different category, that person may have suffered marital issues, financial issues, whatever, and they in their mind feel that they probably have things worse than you. And so I think our brains tend to elevate the problems that we face into a lens that makes it an unfair comparison. And I do think that it’s quite possible to have extreme physical conditions and have an extraordinary level of happiness and contentment in a sense of a good life. And there is also those situations where and you said at times as well for you that there were some dark times and we go through those as well. But I read a book once called A Fortunate Life. My mum has read it. I don’t know if you’ve read that book.

Cathy – I’m pretty sure I have.

Clint – It’s about this, uh, boy who describes or he describes his childhood, and he grows up, and it’s the most extraordinarily challenging life, and it’s called a fortunate life. It’s just so humbling to read how he genuinely believes he’s had this fortunate life and gee the challenges that he endured. And it makes you just sort of continually stop almost at every page and say, Holy mackerel. Like, I got to quit my whingeing, you know what I mean? Like this. This is like, yeah.

Cathy – I think it’s about balance too. You know, it is about balance in the fact that. Yes, I’m in pain today because I think sometimes what we can do is dismiss it. And then when we dismiss it, then we don’t do anything about it or we go, everyone’s worse than me. But I think it’s also about giving ourselves space or whatever it is to go today’s a tough day because then you’re just it’s. Yeah, it is balance. And I think too, you know, for me, I wouldn’t have got where I am on your program but also a really supportive husband and kids, you know, that, um, I’d be totally lost without them. So yeah, I’m very grateful for lots and lots.

Clint – Okay. We’ll now let’s touch upon support and encouragement. I watched a presentation one time at a conference from a neuroscientist who was a coach for high performance athletes, uh, especially in motor sport, F1. And he performed all of these research, analysis and everything and took into account. What was it that enabled high-performance athletes in the area that he worked in to achieve the best results? And it wasn’t where they were born or their financial status or their education. It wasn’t any of the things that he put on a screen as sort of a diversion. What it was was the belief, expectations, and support of their peer group that included the pit crew. It included the friends and family of the drivers. It included, um, even the people who, like, changed the tires and everyone’s input and conviction of the success of the driver that influences the outcome of winning more than anything particular of the driver’s upbringing or background or anything. So it’s the team you have around you that is so influential.

Cathy – Yeah, very much so. And I suppose too, with, you know, doing your program, for my hubby to be happy to have what I’m eating the majority of the time, you know, and there’s none of that. Uh, you know, you’re eating junk food or, you know, those sort of comments. There’s none of that, it’s like he can see the changes in me, so he’s very supportive. That just makes life so much easier.

Clint – Isn’t it interesting how the partner can play such a role in the outcome? Because every now and then we’ll get someone who’s interested in going through this journey that you have, but they say, oh, but in our family, my husband, he just he’s obsessed about his meat intake and his steaks and everything. There’s no way that he’s going to support this. And that can have a direct, catastrophic impact on the outcome.

Cathy – But I think sometimes too, it’s about being prepared to do it yourself. And then you become a role model, right? And also because it’s sometimes by making those changes in our health in many ways changes or improves. So there are people around go, oh yeah, well, I’ll have some of that or, you know, yeah, let’s do that. And a classic is we’re doing more of our salad bowls for lunch, whereas perhaps, you know, for my hubby it might have been. And don’t put this on. Um, it might have been like or something like that. So we do that together and you know, so sometimes although there’s not the support to start off with, we actually have. I would imagine it’s about sometimes having to start off doing it for ourselves.

Clint – I love that. Yeah, becoming the role model with time and then inspiring and making change. Yeah.

Cathy – Sometimes by saying nothing, we achieve heaps. Do you like that?

Clint – I love it. That’s a quote isn’t it? A Cathy quote. Have there been, uh, any changes within your friendships or community or even your daughter who got you the program? Other than your husband, have others that you’ve been able to positively influence?

Cathy – Oh, and look, my daughter, um, has always been into diet and, um, fitness and things like that, so, um. Yeah, whereas our son, he’s also very supportive in the fact that if we’re around there, um, it’s like, what can you eat?

Clint – What other insights Cathy, before we wrap this up? We’ve learned a lot from you around mindset, and I think that a lot of that is actually also implied in just your attitude and the way that you come across. Like it’s very clear that you’re an upbeat, positive go-getter, happy. These sort of adjectives come to mind as you’re sitting here and we’re chatting together and that message comes through just as much as what you’re actually saying. There’s a very, very long time that you’ve had a very, very serious disease. And yet you come across happier, more chirpy, more optimistic than some, uh, folks that I speak to who have only had it for a couple of years. And I just think that’s a testament to, to to you as a character. So first of all, that’s been a great insight. Next, we’ve talked about diet, exercise, gardening, we’ve talked about influencing others, and we’ve talked about your sleep. Is there anything else that you’d like to share, maybe to people who are struggling, especially, what would you encourage them?

Cathy – I suppose also to sometimes confine the time, and the fact that you don’t have to do this forever, because sometimes if you think if I thought that I would have to struggle with this forever, it becomes too daunting. So if you bring it back I’ve only got to do this for this amount of time, it becomes more manageable. That doesn’t minimize what you’re going through at the moment, but I think to, you know, with diet or exercise, it’s. I suppose it’s a bit like exercise. I don’t have to ride the exercise bike forever, but my plan is to ride it for the next five minutes. And if I can do that for five minutes today, I might have to do it for five minutes for the, you know, for however long. But because sometimes the goals that we set ourselves, whether it’s diet or exercise or life in general, can be really overwhelming. So yeah, I suppose to the other thing is I’ve dropped down. Um, drink lots of water. I think that’s, you know, and I can sometimes get busy and not do that. Um, and also finding a balance between rest and activity. And again, I’m not always good at that, you know, um, because I want to achieve stuff or do stuff, and I have a body that doesn’t always allow me. So I suppose, you know, and for people that are struggling, I think it is it’s about confining that and also being kind to yourself. As human beings, we’re not very kind to ourselves. We will do stuff for other people, but will we do it for ourselves? And that’s for a whole lot of different reasons. And knowledge is power.

Clint – Awesome. Well, in terms of some of your insights there that you’ve learned and put in simple terms are well supported by the science. It’s like, you’re touching on crucial aspects of RA reversal mechanisms with the rest recovery thing for example. This is something that I spend a lot of time researching and studying. It’s got to do with the production of free radicals after we exert ourselves and then the rebalancing of the body and how we can do that more quickly, more efficiently, and how this is linked to inflammation levels. And so this is something that is insightful. One, one way that we can do this is dietarily, which is to increase our antioxidant intake after, for example, gardening. So you might want to try that, have a big green smoothie after your garden and see how you pull up the next day. Um, and then another thing is, uh, creatine, which is a three mix anti uh amino acid combination, uh, has been effective at reducing inflammatory markers significantly for people who train to an exhaustion level. And so it’s something that I’ve been suggesting recently to some of my clients, uh, when they are finding it hard to get exercise in without providing setbacks in the early stages. So that’s a little simple supplement. That’s, that’s, that’s got a great safety profile to have a look at as well. Um, after you exert yourself, uh, might help recovery as well. But the green smoothies obviously are safe as you can get. So Cathy, this has been awesome. Thank you very much. Uh, it’s been lovely to meet you.

Cathy – Likewise, I’m so grateful for your program and all the hard work that you’ve done to get to where you are and to be able to share it, you know, and the fact that the research and the knowledge and the or the other that also goes into what you’re talking about and what you’ve developed in the program. So thank you very much. I’m very grateful.

Clint – Well, thank you, Kathy, that means a lot. I really appreciate our talk today, and I hope it’s helped lots of people to gain some insights and some motivation to keep doing the sort of things that you do and to embrace a lifestyle of maximum health and minimum symptoms. That’s what we’re about. So thanks again, Cathy.

Cathy – And I don’t want people to think that, you know, um, you know, I have this smiley face on and it’s unrealistic. You know, I think too, that, um. Yeah. Just be really kind to yourself.

Clint – Yes, that’s right. We’re very much acutely aware at all times that this is the life of Pi. We were living with a ferocious animal, and we do everything we can to understand this animal, to be able to know its behaviours, its triggers, so that we stop irritating it with our lifestyle and then living with this ferocious animal. We then want to have a lifestyle that has the least stimulatory effect for it to come at us. And therefore we know that behind the closed doors of everyone with this condition, we live with this little bit of fear, no matter how well we’re doing that, if we do the wrong thing, it can ferociously come back and get us. So we’ve all got that level of awareness and caution in our lives.

Cathy – Thank you. Yeah.

Clint – Thanks, Kathy.

Cathy – You take care.