Since joining our RA Coaching Program in 2023, Elaine has normalized her CRP levels and dropped
major disease-modifying drugs: she is now symptom-free, and today she shares her story with us.

We discuss in this interview:

• Elaine’s severe RA symptoms, despite taking methotrexate and sulfasalazine, before starting the RA Coaching Program
• How her C-reactive protein dropped dramatically from 20 to 3.2 without changing medications within four months, successfully tapering off sulfasalazine and completely stopping methotrexate
• Gradual improvements in the joints, with shoulders taking the longest to heal
• Elaine’s consistent exercise routines, including home workouts, even when traveling, bringing exercise equipment to Airbnbs
• The crucial role played by her husband Gary as both caregiver and chef, preparing meals and supporting her throughout the journey
• The importance of discipline and mindset
• Regaining strength and weight through consistent exercise
• Using feet as an early warning system for food sensitivities
• How Gary also experienced health benefits, including being able to stop his cholesterol medication after following the same diet
• The supportive role of their rheumatologist, after seeing consistent improvements in lab results
• How this journey improved their relationship as a couple

Clint – If you’re looking for an interview that you can enjoy where you see a transformation of someone who not only normalizes their C-reactive protein but also comes off to major disease-modifying drugs with significant rheumatoid arthritis. Then this interview is for you. I’m joined by Elaine and her husband, Gary, who supported her throughout this entire journey. Now, Elaine joined our RA Coaching Program back in 2023. And at that time, as I pull up here in front of me, her specifics, she was taking 15mg a day of methotrexate. She was taking 2000mg a day of sulfasalazine. She was taking ibuprofen as needed. And she was on and I say was hypothyroidism medications of methimazole. And in addition, her C-reactive protein was 20.3mg/l. So with that background, now as we sit here and it’s early 2025, as we do this interview, I’m going to flick over and say hello to Elaine and her husband, Gary, and I want you guys to tell me, how are you now, Elaine?

Elaine – How am I now? I am just feeling fantastic. It’s just wonderful to wake up each morning and be normal. Not to think what pain do I feel this morning? And what will like the day be? Because in 2023, the year was just a kind of like eat, sleep, be in pain, go back to eat, sleep and be in pain. It was just constant, that way. And so I’m just so thrilled that I can just get up and move. I’m just thrilled.

Gary – To the point where she wants.

Clint – Sorry, Gary.

Gary – She’s walking like five miles every other day with friends.

Elaine – Yeah. And plus, We have a personal trainer since we retired in 2019 twice a week. And even with that awful, painful 2023 year I went anyways. He just had to dress me. He had to tie my shoes and everything. But I kind of walked in there and the personal trainer, Mark, was just terrific because he gave me 2 lbs. Or even lighter just to be able to move, and I just could not even move my arms much at all, comb my hair or anything. It was just so painful. But I went anyways, which turns out it was a good idea to keep on exercising as I went through all that pain and could barely move.

Clint – This is one of the key things that I think we should convey throughout our discussion here. Before we get into all that details, summarize where you’re at now with your medications and your C-reactive protein.

Elaine – I am not taking any medications. I have not taken it since October the 24th of 2024 last year. Because the results have been just great. Just fantastic. It was less than 1.0. And then I think it just went up just a tiny bit because you said I was off meds, it’s been really terrific. I’ve just been doing really well.

Clint – I’ve just brought it up here in one of your latest updates. So we’re going back six weeks now. Latest C-reactive protein is 1.9mg/l. That’s on absolutely nothing. No medication whatsoever. No painkillers, no sulfasalazine, no methotrexate. And when you were on those meds two years ago, your C-reactive protein was 20 and you subsequently had to take some steroids even to try and bring that that those symptoms down. So this is an absolutely phenomenal transformation. Go back to the start. Here we are like, let’s say two years ago, almost since this begun. Paint the picture. You just mentioned that you were having the physical therapist help you to put on your workout gear and stuff. Was that right or was Gary doing.

Elaine – No, my husband.

Gary – Pick her up off the floor.

Clint – And so you literally had to pick her up off the floor.

Gary – There was one time she fell out of bed.

Elaine – I was off. I was I just ended up on the carpet and we could not get up and nothing was working.

Gary – And so she was in so much pain that I touched her.

Elaine – He wanted to pull me. I go, no, because I think I’ll break. So, it was painful. Very painful.

Clint – Besides your elbows, where was the disease presenting itself?

Elaine – Very much on the shoulders. But just everywhere. The feet, the toes, the back of the knee, the hips, just going to wrists. And I learned to sleep on my back because I like to sleep on the side. But the shoulders were so painful and I found out that just sleeping more like a mummy was helpful. Because if you don’t move your hands or anything, because when you wake up and you realize your hands are somewhere else, you’ve got so much pain. And it was awful. It was just pain everywhere.

Clint – And when going back to that time when you started working with us, what was the experience like as you started implementing the diet, working with the physical therapist. Can you talk about the journey into those lifestyle changes?

Elaine – The meals were hard. It was very hard because I followed everything you had. So it was very hard.

Gary – Aren’t she great about everything? All the way that it didn’t taste like it should.

Elaine – It was awful. That whole year was just tasteless. But I ate as much as I could. I know, because, it was just difficult because I was in such pain, it wasn’t tasty or anything, but I just did it, but it was not easy.

Gary – But getting away from those inflammatory foods made a huge difference fairly quickly on some things.

Elaine – Listening to the podcast gave us hope and encouragement. It really did. We listened 24/ seven and this is going to be all right, I’m gonna get there later. Then I lost like 35 lbs. So I was really weak and I lost all my muscles and it was just hard. It was just very difficult to move around, to walk around, to do anything just to get up out of the couch. That was hard.

Clint – If anyone’s just listening to this and they’re not watching this online, then, they won’t appreciate that. Elaine, you look fabulous right now. You’ve got a muscular, certainly chest up is all I can see. But you certainly look like you’ve turned all that around. We can talk about that in a second. And there’s two factors here with regards to weight loss. One is that when we’re inflamed, the inflammation cannibalizes muscle mass. And number two is that when we’re inflamed, it’s hard to work out at a level that adequately stimulates muscle hypertrophy, which then in turn grows muscle. So we’re just not stimulating the muscles enough because the joints hurt. And then number three, we have to acclimatize to a way of eating that isn’t rich in Western diet, fats and so on. And the body has to adjust in terms of the volume of food that we eat because it is lower calorie density. There’s several factors going on there. Even with that, though, your weight loss sounds certainly a lot like above average. I’m glad that, you look like you’re like, got a very strong athletic body again.

Elaine – I do. So I’m thankful for that.

Clint – You made those changes. Gary said that the inflammation was dropping quickly once you took out the inflammatory foods. Tell us about going and doing the workouts, even in pain. How did you manage that?

Elaine – The personal trainer was great because he checked to see where I was. He goes, lift up your arms. And it would only go to this much. And he goes, okay, and then he would figure it out what I can do for that day. He was terrific because later on I would go, I could see I was losing all the muscles. And I go, Will I ever gain it back? He goes, you will. And I’m just looking. And I go, how long will it take? Because I was just so weak. But later on, as I kept going with the program, as we left the gym, I could feel that I was more or less walking better and walking straighter as I left. I was getting stronger that way because I know I would go in just so weak walking, just kind of like this, barely walking.

Gary – Between what the trainer was doing to get the blood flowing in the joints, that he was actually doing the same things that the physical therapist was doing. Once a week as well. So, she had the physical therapist for an hour who did much more than what the doctor had authorized to help her get moving. He was very, very encouraging. And then on twice a week we were getting it again at the gym for an hour with the weights.

Elaine – And also, I think Gary had what I was doing too, at times so that I would go home and do it the days I didn’t see the personal trainer. And so that was good because I would do it at home and a stationary bike and a treadmill. Every day I would use one of them and try to walk as much as I could. If it was a week day, that I was very weak, I would not walk as much, but I would try to walk a little bit or bike a little on the stationary bike because I couldn’t do walks. My feet were hurting so badly, so I could do it at the house.

Gary – And another aside there is. She was so adamant about everything. We got all of the tools that were both the trainer and the PT ask us to get. There was a stick so she could do these movements. A pull down thing on the bathroom door. To keep that going.

Elaine – Our personal trainer got us something that I could put on the stairs and work on my arms. It was great that way.

Gary – It was nice to clean up the bedroom and get rid of that stuff when she started feeling better.

Elaine – Even when we went on to Airbnb’s, if there was a special occasion like our birthday or something, and we went, I brought all my five pounders and my weight, my things for the door so that I can work on my arms because they were hurting so badly that I can’t just go a day without not working out.

Clint – I absolutely love what you guys are saying here. When the joints hurt, they’re like a crying baby. They need attention. You’d never leave a baby unattended for more than 24 hours. In fact, at the most, right? Or even 20 minutes. So, we need to give those babies attention. And when you just said my joints hurt so much, I didn’t want to go a day without working them out. That is the big message. I want everyone else to understand who’s listening to this or watching this. We’ve got to get movement through those joints every day. You do the exercise because they hurt. That’s why we’re doing it. We don’t avoid it because they’re hurting. It’s the opposite. So this is crucial. Your determination is immense. When you’ve got the commitment and determination of the level where you’re traveling with workout gear, when you’re going on vacation and stuff, it’s that level of commitment that is needed to overcome Methotrexate, sulfasalazine, daily painkillers and 20mg/l of C-reactive protein. You’re in a deep, dark well, at that time you need to have an offense that is equal and above the defenses against you. Can you give me some other examples of the lengths that you went to, to get this under control?

Elaine – Let’s see. What did we do besides that

Clint – Are there any moments you remember

Elaine – He’s the chef, so he makes every single morning. It’s so boring. But he’ll do make my big bowl of amaranth and have the blueberries, strawberries and bananas there. So every morning I have that. But as he’s doing this, I’m upstairs working it out because it’s so painful. I’ve got my 5 lbs. my 2 lbs., and I’m trying to do all the exercises that I’ve been told to do that would help me. I would work up an hour there and I go, is breakfast ready soon? He goes, yeah, and I’m coming down. But I’d be upstairs for that whole hour working. I’d be doing it because I knew that it was so painful. But I knew that I would be a little better. But what my goal was to be able to be outside because there were times we would walk. He would drive me somewhere where I like to walk and I go, oh, sorry, my hips are hurting now. We only did a half a mile. Is it all right if we go back home? Because it would be so painful. So, my goal was that. And then one exciting time, and I wasn’t feeling great, he put the bike in the back of the car.

Elaine – And then we drove to a certain spot where he thought I would be safe. And then he got me on the bike. And then I biked a little bit just in the little parking lot of the college, and I just felt so good that I was able to do that and then help get me off, and then that was that. But then later on, as I got to bike with him like on a trail. It was really good. But then I’ll get the headaches or the pain with all of it. The pain is here. And at that time I was still taking Advil or Tylenol because we couldn’t really take Advil because I remember reading on the program that we shouldn’t. So I think it was Tylenol. It would be so painful, like halfway, that I’d have to take it and go, okay, let’s have a little break and I’ll take my pain meds, to help me a bit. But biking was I really want it to be out. And so it was exciting to be out, but it was painful. So, if we took pictures, like for Facebook, I’d go smile and then I’d go, okay, I’m in pain now.

Gary – She’s doing great.

Elaine – No one knew. No one knew how painful I was and what pain it was.

Gary – One of the rides that she was talking about, it’s like a 16-mile ride. She got through probably 12 miles and she couldn’t make it any further. So, we stopped there. Park. Then I had to ride all the way back to the car to get her.

Elaine – Because I was in such pain. I do have to say we do have e-bikes though. But we’re the kind who will turn it on only when we really need it.

Gary – In the meantime, she talked about her amaranth too. The other thing I did for her was I started adding flax meal, hulled hemp seeds and chia seeds to up the protein in it. Even though, the amaranth has a lot of protein anyhow. So I would throw those things in.

Elaine – Because our personal trainer says you need protein.

Clint – If you’re working out the extent that you were and you’re only doing amaranth for breakfast because, the program, that’s only just for the first couple of weeks there, and then you migrate onto slowly onto oats and things. Are you doing oats for breakfast, Dylan, or are you still on the simple stuff?

Elaine – You know what? I’m not. I can eat more. But the thing of it is, the amaranth fills me for a good couple of hours to three hours. Because there’d be times when I was so weak and I go, oh, now we got to eat. And all we have in the car would be fruit and some nuts, but then I noticed that the amaranth lasted longer. I would really have the boring amaranth every morning. And then we can have bowls for dinner, which we do often, like spinach and quinoa. Now he’s able to make sauces for me, now that I can do cashews. So that’s been really wonderful. And I can finally have tomatoes.

Clint – So awesome.

Elaine – That’s awesome.

Clint – Amazing. What I want to ask you is, at what point did you start to see that you could not take the painkiller? And which joints were also the ones that were responding most satisfyingly?

Elaine – I think everything started working. I think I started feeling like within four months, May, June, July, August, September. I started your program late May just right at the end of May. And so by September, I had to have a lab work. And I was amazed at how well I was doing with the lab work. And I was starting to feel better. I could do some walking and everything. I felt that was helpful.

Clint – Let me just actually put some numbers around that. So, after four months, the September following that, you’ll see C-reactive protein without changing medications, had dropped from 20 to 3.2.

Elaine – Yes.

Clint – Okay. So, before you started tapering drugs, you’d already like completely slashed your C-reactive protein back down to normal.

Elaine – I was feeling good. Although the shoulders were the last to go. That took a long time. That pain. Because I was thinking, well, if I just have to live with this, that’s better than everything else. But then I thought, should be nice if I could just have normal shoulders one day. I didn’t know if it was really going to come because it just lasted so long. I’m just so thankful there’s no pain there.

Clint – Which were the joints? Can you tell us the sort of the evolution of your joints? For example, like, I’ll give you an example, something that would be really useful for people would be like, my right wrist was really painful at the start, but then after like six months it hurt a little bit less. And then 12 months pain was gone. My knees, they were really bad, but biking helped them or something else helped them to really talk about each joint and how you got the pain out and the sort of time frame for each one.

Elaine – I’m not sure on the time frame, although I wrote a diary, but that’s too hard to look at right now. I would write down, right hand, right wrist hurts. I wrote everything down, but, I had wrist pain, but it just kind of, like, left me by that September because I think that the only pain, I had been maybe definitely the feet and the shoulders.

Gary – It’s like the shoulders were the last to get better. We celebrated the first time she did a lateral raise and got up to here.

Elaine – The personal trainer was going, look at that. I go, I know. He was so happy because he knew that. He goes, can you get a little higher? I go, this is the best I could. He goes, okay, you know. But when he saw that, it’s like, wow!

Gary – Probably by the end of 23 that I think your shoulder is easing up.

Elaine – I think so, but I would agree with that. But the other parts of the body just kind of went did much better by the that September lab work. In four months of your program. I would say that. At times maybe just a weirdness of maybe it was inflammation of eating, trying something out because I would always meticulously write anything new that I tried out and go, Now, my wrist hurts today. I can’t have that. I would write it down. We would try tomatoes way like two months later or something. I think that part went out. It’s just the feet and the redness of the sides of the feet would really be there. And then the shoulders.

Clint – There are people, millions of people who have pain in their shoulders and feet. I want you to go into more detail here. When did the feet stop hurting, and what were the exercises that helped the shoulders the most and also the feet the most?

Elaine – The shoulders, I think that it just took time with your foods. Because we kept trying everything. We kept following your thing, the foods. And then also just working out with the personal trainer.

Gary – Exercises were the things like the pull downs. And taking a poll. Going up and down. Those helped. She was doing some TheraBand also to try to help with the shoulders.

Elaine – And I don’t know if where to put them, if I had some exercises, because he would maybe videotape me at the gym so I could kind of do some at home that I could place on the program, the Paddison program. I don’t know where to place it so that people could see some of the exercises, they could try for the shoulder problems.

Clint – Because you’ve been doing so well and you haven’t been as sort of interactive with all of the curriculum and so forth over the last sort of six months. We’ve updated all of that. There is now step by step curriculum for upper body and lower body. That’s all been overhauled. And the exercises you’re just describing do overlap with the approach that we want everyone to take for the shoulders, which is to do pull down style exercises where the resistance involves a pull process and normally from above and down. And the reason this works so well is because, number one, we’re distracting the wrist. We’re distracting the elbow. Right. They’re not being compressed. The joints. They’re being pulled apart. Elbows, wrists. It loves that. But so, does shoulders. And when we’re up like that we’ve got the direction of the tension is upwards. That is also a distraction through the shoulder. And the extreme of this is hanging from a bar. And this is a direction that our audience, our community, everyone should be working towards this. And you’ll see me on social media doing pull ups and all sorts of things. That is the direction. It may not be the end result for everyone because of ability, but it’s the direction everyone should be heading. And so your exercise is fantastic. Okay. What you’re doing, you know. Well done.

Elaine – Thanks.

Clint – Now talk about your feet. Like, how bad were they two years ago? How were they today? And talk about the evolution of your feet pain.

Elaine – Well, I’m just trying to think, because I would talk to him every day about all the feet, but then I think it just kind of, like, disappeared. I think the foods, again.

Gary – A lot of pain in both her ankles and the bottoms of her feet. She would complain even though she’s got these really comfortable running shoes. It would hurt.

Elaine – It would also feel like I had the sock was doubled up, because I’d have to take the shoes off and go. No, the socks alright. But every time I go, I’m just seeing that in my head. I’ve got to open the shoes then take off the shoes. But it wasn’t.

Gary – And I think, Just the process like we’re doing with the shoulders and walking as far as she can. Like she said, we go to the park, it’s three times around the park. It’s a mile, and she did one loop and time to go home. Next time we celebrated if we did two loops. Just keeping the blood flowing like that and not pushing it to the point that she would start hurting and I have to pick her up or anything. That helped. We did that and then persistently going to the trainer because he was always doing upper body and lower body. He would mix it up. So, that she would be getting it. All of it. I think the combination of those moved it.

Elaine – And what’s nice is that, with the feet. Now when I try new foods, new things, reintroduction the shoulders are pretty good. It’s the feet. All of a sudden I go, I can’t try that kind because look at it. It’s all red now. And it wasn’t red a while ago. That’s an indicator I can’t have that. Can’t try the white rice again. I could do the brown rice, but the white rice is still not working or tofu. I tried four times. It’s still not working. But it’s usually the feet that turns red a bit, and then I go, okay, off it.

Clint – Understood. The feet are your alarm system at the moment. Everything else is gone. It’s just the feet gives you that feedback when you go to the food sensitivity testing.

Elaine – Yes.

Clint – I love how you’re talking about. This is the way we also lay things out inside the curriculum. We’ve got our upper body workout, lower body workout. And then the feet fall into place as you implement everything that has been done with the diet and those two major zone workout regimes. The reason is, because the diet is taking care of problem number one, which is let’s optimize our microbial system in the body. That is the balance and the amount and the specifics of the bacteria in the mouth and the colon. That’s part one, which is handled through the sequence of foods that you have have experienced that reduces inflammation, because as long as we have an army of amazing healthy microbes, they produce the short chain fatty acids to heal the gut wall. And then we don’t have the the leaky gut like we did. Number two is that we know that we must have high levels of glutathione, which is an antioxidant inside the body. That’s not only in every cell in our body, but it’s also abundant down the digestive tract to protect us from free radicals that come from a Western diet. But a Western diet over decades will deplete that antioxidant reservoir in our mucosal lining in our digestive tract, and we become vulnerable so that something like some heated oils flare up within six, eight hours.

Clint – That’s why. And when we’re working on exercise, that is the only and most essential way to increase glutathione. And by just cautiously moving the joints each day and gradually becoming fitter and fitter and stronger and stronger, have simultaneously increased glutathione. Your entire antioxidant system has raised, which means that food sensitivity is dropped and inflammation drops because glutathione is inversely proportional to symptom level, meaning higher glutathione and lower symptoms in RA patients. It’s a phenomenon that’s predictable and repeatable. You’ve got your microbial system sorted, you’ve got your antioxidant system sorted and in parallel to those, and let me add, therefore, the feet are feeling better even if all you’re doing is walking. So we don’t have to do a big workout for the feet. It’s just done the first two things right, which takes time. You kept this up for a year, grinding out those workouts, eating the boring food as you’re saying, grinding it out, reducing all of these areas of the body that are out of out of balance, the feet falling into place. Now, the third part of this, the third system, is the mood system or the parasympathetic nervous system, and the whole dynamic around emotions. How did that change with time? How was your mental state, your mood? How did it evolve as you peeled away the symptoms from your painful body?

Elaine – Yeah, that was hard. That mood. Right?

Gary – Yeah, but it is.

Elaine – It’s very hard.

Gary – As you started feeling better, you were more up.

Elaine – Yes, definitely. It just for sure, because it was such a such dark times. Then if he had to lift my legs up so I can get to bed or whatever, It was so awful and just the pain. When I wake up, how is it going to be? That I think it just being persistent, just again, listening to those podcasts that really helped us. It just gave me hope. It just gave me hope every time I heard or a new story and they’re talking about this or this older lady whose mega years of blah, blah, blah, and then it’s like, wow, she really changed her lifestyle and did this. And now she’s even in her 80s and can do this and that. And wow, it’s just remarkable what we heard.

Gary – And the other thing too is basically she was a shut in for the year.

Elaine – Yeah.

Gary – And we are very active. We traveled. We did all kinds of things. And we had a year of nothing, basically. I mean, we do little outings to an Airbnb for two nights at the most and then come back. But just as she got through that part and into 2024, she started interacting more with people and friends. And that helps her mood as she improved on things, too.

Elaine – Because even in early 2024 and I was done with methotrexate that October of 2023. I would want to, kind of get dressed. I did it myself and everything, but it took a lot of energy that like if I was getting ready for church and he would go ahead of time because he was playing an instrument. So he goes and practices early. But the thing of it is, so I was going to go and then I go, oh, getting all ready just exhausted me. And so I go, I would text him and go, I got to stay home because I’m really tired now. That tired me out. But now I have energy. I think that methotrexate was just kind of like getting out of my body then, because I think probably April probably May, I was starting to have more energy and I didn’t have to take as many naps because the methotrexate tired me so much.

Gary – So, as that all lifted, her spirits lifted.

Elaine – Yes. And then being able to see people more and stuff. It’s very nice that you have friends that just really cared about you or would go for a walk, or pick me up and put my seatbelt on for me and help me out of the car since it’s hard to get everything off, because I was so weak. I couldn’t even put the seatbelt on. It’s just nice. That kind of thing.

Clint – That being said, that community she has. In addition to what we were doing at the gym and the PT and the food at home, that community helped her as well.

Elaine – And then there was a good group of people praying for me, and that I knew they were praying for me. And that helped, too.

Clint – How are you now, Elaine? Like, I don’t think I’ve asked you specifically, like, what’s it like now? Getting dressed and what’s it like now putting on a seat belt in the car. Describe what you can do now in those areas and maybe some other areas.

Elaine – I can do anything I used to do. I can do anything. I can play the piano now. Back at playing and for church and everything. I’m so thankful. Every morning I’d wake up and I’d go, thank you. That I don’t have it, the pain anymore. I’m just so thankful because I just know it was so recently that I had the pain that I still remember that it was. I would tell him, do you remember just a couple months ago how awful I couldn’t even blah, blah, blah, and he goes, yes. And I go, wow, look at this. Look at me now. I can move or whatever, because I’m just so thankful and I’m so thankful that I’m not taking meds. So thankful because we know in the long run, I knew I heard from your podcast and everything Because sometimes you have to go to the higher level of the meds, or the meds later on will not work for you. And I don’t want to really be there because I’m having so much pain. How am I going to exercise when I’m even older, when I can barely even get out of the bed now. And then to hear your podcast, I just happen to look up. I was so frustrated, so frustrated with how that I was worse than worse one day because I went with a friend to sushi restaurant, I go, I don’t know what it is, but I’m hurting. And so I decided to go look for podcasts. I just put down rheumatoid arthritis. We heard your story in the car. And I would pause it. I’d go, she’s saying everything I’ve been doing, I have right now. Pause it. And she’s saying the same thing. I could barely, I couldn’t lift up my shoulders. I couldn’t comb my hair. I go, that’s me. What does she do? So, I’m thankful to be able to speak out and say, yes, it can happen. This is exciting.

Clint – Amazing. Gary, what’s your take on all of this? I mean, you’ve been the support, the crutch, the foundation throughout this entire journey. What’s it been like to partake in this with Elaine for your relationship? And what has it taught you about health and her resilience and what’s important in life?

Gary – Well, first of all, I think the whole process brought us closer. Obviously, when I had to be a total caregiver, that was different. So yes, it’s improved our relationship. It’s been exciting to see her, her abilities grow and what she could do along the way again. Just watching her in the morning just to see how high she lifted her arms. We would celebrate those things and we still do that. When it’s exciting when I try something new, I said, okay, I’m going to add this ingredient today. And it’s just the joy she has with the tastes good and I didn’t flare up.

Elaine – Write that down. Put that down. We’re going to make you have to make this again.

Gary – Even we can laugh too when like I’ll sneak in something. Let’s say she doesn’t do well with maple syrup, so I’d sneak it in and she said, what did I eat? My toes are red, but that becomes a laughing point to say.

Elaine – The maple syrup didn’t quite work yet.

Gary – So I think that’s been a joy that way. And just to see the efforts, it was godsend that she found your program for both of us, because I’m healthier now than I was as well. At first I was the garbage pit, eating all the stuff in the house that shouldn’t have been in the house for her. And then I got fully on the diet.

Elaine – And then whenever I inflamed, I go, you got to eat the rest of that meal because I’m hurting a lot.

Gary – That has enriched us. And all along the way, the podcast have enriched us. The community of people supporting us along the way have enriched us. And that helps in the journey to get to the outcomes that I and Elaine has experienced.

Clint – You mentioned prior to us hitting recording here that, you have stopped taking cholesterol medications Gary.

Gary – As a part of this and my doctor, like the rheumatologist, was kind of skeptical. He says, well, your genetics are kind of the type you’re always going to have cholesterol. And so the first time I asked, he said, no, I think you need to take it. So then three months later I said, can we retest? And it was down still. He said, okay, I think your diet is making a difference. So he let me get off of it. So that was nice because I’d been taking, the generic for Lipitor for 15, 20 years and could never get it with diet because we were pescatarian before all of this, and we were exercising a lot, but my cholesterol was still persistently in a range it shouldn’t be. So it’s just wonderful that the combination of the program, the diet has helped me get off of that as well.

Clint – Congratulations. Whilst you’re on the topic of medications, Elaine, tell me the journey you went through with the rheumatologist to taper off the medications. What order did you taper down the medications if you could share that with their audience, and also how you went about it and how collaborative it was with the rheumatologist. Was there friction? Could you just talk about those medications to the journey to come off them?

Elaine – The rheumatologist was really good in that we can make our choice. So therefore he said, okay, think about it. Sulfasalazine and methotrexate. And then he would have this little blurb on each. And then I would google and check and see and then I go, okay, let me just try sulfasalazine for a bit. So on March 10th, 2023, I took 500mg for daily and then I tried, he wanted me to have methotrexate April 30th because the sulfasalazine I guess was not working. He could see that it wasn’t working. He goes, I think we need to add. So we added the methotrexate and that was four tablets, 2.5mg a tablet. Once a week I would take that. And then later on in May I would have to take six tablets. So I doubled it. I mean, I added two more and then in June I added two more. So that’s eight tablets. And then in August I added two more again. So that’s ten tablets.

Gary – Backing up though, but since Sulfasalazine wasn’t working well that was 2024.

Gary – She’s on track.

Elaine – And then December, now I’m going down I think. So I went down to eight tablets. January again eight tablets and then July of 2024 last year then I went to six. Because now I’m starting to feel good because I remember saying that was around July. I was I go, the shoulders are not hurting that much at all is just kind of disappearing now.

Gary – And by May of 2024, she had over a period of two months had tapered off of sulfasalazine currently.

Elaine – I was thinking maybe that’s not really helping at all. We couldn’t tell, was it helping? So I go and I asked the doctor and he says, yeah, you can take it off. So I took it off then. So now I’m only on sulfasalazine, I mean methotrexate and starting like that in May alone. May of 2024. So then I was taking eight and then August 4th and then late August, 3 tablets. I didn’t ask the doctor because I just thought, well, I’m feeling better. I’m just going to try it. And then so October 6th, I go, well, I’m really feeling good, I’m just going to take two. So I did, and then I had lab work and then I asked the doctor, I go, hey, I’m taking two tablets. Check out the lab work. What do you think I should be doing? Should I just take one? And he goes. Two is just like nothing. One is nothing. Go ahead and take nothing. On October 24th, last year, 2024, I took zero. And that’s what it’s been. No meds.

Gary – And he was reluctant in the beginning for us to play with the meds this way. And he didn’t really think that diet was going to help. But he was, we had a good relationship with him and he could see the impact that the diet and exercise was having along the way. So by the end he was supportive of it. So that was nice.

Elaine – He never said, that’s definitely what everybody should try. He would say something like, for some people that works or something. But at least he was really good about having me figure it out myself and then asking permission. And he says, yeah, go ahead.

Clint – It’s interesting, isn’t it? You kind of, we have to almost as patients worldwide almost educate the rheumatologist one case at a time. And you’ve just planted the seed into that rheumatologist, mind. You know what? Wow. Like, you don’t get taught this at medical school. Look at what is actually possible when you’ve got a team like you two. Determination at the highest level, the absolute perfect plan in place so that you’re never 1% off direction, you’re always heading straight in the direction that you need to go. And you have a daily habit that you adhere to that cumulative creates results with time and the discipline to stick with it long enough to be able to allow the changes which are slow and steady, to occur in the body. The microbiome does change gradually. The glutathione antioxidant system, it is a slow burn. It doesn’t happen with one workout. It happens after months of workouts. The studies support this. And as you explain Gary, Elaine’s mood felt better after she got through all the sludge and the mud and the slow stuff and eventually started to venture out into social connections and everything. And then this is a level up again where mood is going up, feeling better, and then as you’re coming off the methotrexate, which has that common side effect, not for everyone, but quite common of feeling exhausted all the time. And so as you took that out of the system and your energy levels went back up. Again, it’s another grip hold as you’re climbing up out of the deep, dark well and the winds slowly build. And this is how you described as the pain just sort of going away in the joints. Not like the feeling of dropping ten milligrams of steroid one day, where it goes quickly and then comes back. It’s an evaporation effect, like a small pond of water under months of sunshine. It just slowly goes away. And what’s the plan with the rheumatologist at the moment? Are you on a sort of, check in and observe kind of regime

Elaine – I think he almost went it like every six months. And I said, how about for the first time ever. I mean, three months, in three months. So on April, early April, I’ll go for lab work. And then I’m sure he’s going to say, it looks good again. So let’s stretch it longer. So I think that’s what he’ll probably say.

Clint – The only interaction with them right now is just through the message system.

Elaine – Yeah.

Gary – Through our health system. So she doesn’t have to go in but she does the monitoring of the blood work.

Elaine – Yeah

Clint – Amazing. How different life looks now than May 2023.

Elaine – For sure. Definitely.

Clint – Well, thanks guys for coming on and sharing this incredible story. In a way, it’s like going full circle because you used to listen to our podcast. You mentioned several times when you were suffering, and now there’ll be people listening to your story, just like you were listening to others and they will listen to this and think, wow, I’m on those meds, or I’m in that pain and I can see a pathway out of it. And there is work in this. This isn’t for fame. This is why what we do is niche, right? We don’t attract the masses who enjoy their pizzas and beers on a Friday night. We just don’t. We attract people like you guys who are absolute go getters who say that’s what it takes. I’m all in because I don’t want to know. There’s more that I could be doing that I’m not, and that there’s an opportunity that I’m sitting on. If I simply go through this process and see it through. And so I acknowledge that both of you, for an incredible amount of effort and determination to push through all of the challenges and those very dark days you described, Elaine, to get yourself to this point. You’re one of that small minority of the human population who are willing to do what it takes to get the outcome that you want. So congratulations, and I hope I’ll meet you guys in person one day.

Gary – And thank you for being a major part of this journey, because we couldn’t have done it without you and your encouragement through the emails and the programs that you provide.

Elaine – Thank you so much for your support. And just we could tell when we were listening to you talk to people. And I go, You know what He really cares about people. He is genuine. And that’s what makes it even better, because you really do care for people. And thank you so much.

Clint – Thank you very much.