Anaya has achieved three big brekthroughs in her journey to overcome RA symptoms: she got on top of her knee problems, stopped taking medications and developed a great resilience in the process.

We discuss in this interview:

• Re-learning to walk with swollen knees
• Cycling and swimming to re-gain movement
• Knee’s kinetic chain of movement
• The importance of regular exercise
• Breaking the neural loop for pain
• How Anaya tapered medications
• Mind-body connection
• Developing resilience as a muscle

Clint – We’ve got a great interview in store for you today. My friend Anaya, who is one of our coaches inside our support platform, is here again on the episode to talk about her three big breakthroughs in the last five months and exactly how she achieved them. Welcome back Anaya.

Anaya – Hi, thanks. Nice to be here.

Clint – Tell us what these three big breakthroughs are that you’re so joyful about.

Anaya – Well, I guess the first one is really starting to get on top of my knee problems. Number two I’ve been off medication since the first weekend in June with no problems. And number three, I guess really for me is just increasing resilience, physical resilience, mental resilience, which is of course as a consequence of having all these challenges. That’s how we build it. So yeah. Yeah.

Clint – Awesome. Okay. Well let’s get straight into it and we’ll respect people’s time who are watching or listening to this. Tell us what you did for your knees by first of all, describing what state your knees used to be in and the sort of evolution that they went through.

Anaya – Right. Okay, so I had a period with my knees where they were both I described them as both being swollen like the biggest potato you could possibly imagine. They were massive, like the biggest bit on my leg pretty much. And I couldn’t straighten them, I also couldn’t bend them. So I really had probably only 20 or 30 degrees of movement. So I couldn’t actually walk for around six months without the aid of crutches or pretty much I was doing the zimmer frame shuffle. But I think people will probably be able to relate to it, so there wasn’t a lot that I could do. I didn’t have the strength to sit down without falling into a chair like a 120-year-old. And I also had to have help standing up, because I just didn’t have the physical strength to be able to stand up on my own. So pretty dismal state of affairs really.

Clint – Let’s hear about the evolution and what interventions you underwent.

Anaya – So well, obviously I found the Paddison Program and I realized that I had to get moving, so I got moving. And I had to teach myself to walk again, which is if anyone has done that, it’s a really energetically draining thing to do because you mentally have to think literally one foot, one foot. So it takes a lot of time. And because I relearned to walk again with limited mobility, what it meant is that I wasn’t developing functional movement patterns, and I wasn’t using my kinetic chain, the chain of muscles that are involved in walking adaptively or properly so that that comes in down the track. So basically I got moving. I started off cycling backwards because I couldn’t cycle forwards, and I had to put the seat right up because I didn’t have the mobility to be able to sit on a bike with a seat at a proper height and cycle forward. So I did a lot of cycling. I actually did laughter yoga while I was sitting on my bike cycling, and that for me was really great because laughter is a really effective pain reliever so that I could cycle and laugh at the same time. And it kind of drew my attention away from that. And when you’re laughing, you’re also telling your body everything’s okay. So it allowed my body to sort of calm down and to, you know, circumnavigate that pain response that occurs even when you’re not actually doing any damage. And so that’s really important because when you’re rehabbing, we become quite sensitized to pain, don’t we? Because we’re quite used to experiencing it. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m pretty pain adverse these days. I’m not really into it, I definitely don’t choose it. But sometimes your body still has that pain response. So when you try to do something new, your joints are like, whoa, hang on. No, no. Painful, painful. And so you have to really get discerning about the pain that causes damage and the pain that is just a neural loop. And I’m definitely exploring that at the moment with the rehabilitation and strengthening stuff that I’m doing at the moment. My knees like, hang on, we haven’t moved like that for a while, I’m not sure about this, but as soon as you do it a few times, you find the pain settles, everything’s okay.

Anaya – I did a lot of movement. I found what worked for me and what worked for me was really a lot of walking forwards and backwards. Cycling, yes, initially backwards, now forwards and on a real bike. And swimming is actually really good for me as well. I started off with flippers and partly because I’d lost so much body fat, I couldn’t stay on top of the water. Without them, I would just sink. So I’ve actually had to relearn to swim again as well, because my body composition has changed quite a lot. Now I’ve graduated to sort of strength-building flippers, and I can also do laps and stay on top of the water without flippers. So those are the things that really, really work for me.

Clint – I’ve seen before and after pictures of your physique that you’ve shared over the past few months, and you’ve really, in your upper body, developed a lot of back strength, shoulder development. You look like you you look like a powerful athlete from behind with your back pictures and stuff. So, um, not to say the front is awful. I’m just saying that I’ve only seen you with swimwear on from the back now. Okay, we need more specifics. And you told us that the knees were blown up, like big potatoes. And then you said you went and learnt how to walk really like a child learning how to walk for the first time again. You said that you were doing backward cycling, then forward cycling. You’ve got some swimming in there and you’ve just touched on rehab. Did you have any interventions like a cortisone shot or how did the swelling go down? Did it go down on its own? And can you explain that aspect and give us more information?

Anaya – Yeah. Well, when I first went to the rheumatologist, which was after a baker cyst ruptured in one of my knees, which ironically is my good knee now. He was like, well, methotrexate 20mg, steroid shots in each knee. And you know, when you get diagnosed, you’re like. And it was all too much for me so I didn’t have the steroid shots on my knees at that stage. I couldn’t make a decision, I was in total shock, and I think a lot of people could probably relate to that. So it was just too much for me to make the decision right then and there, and I didn’t realise really how unwell I was at that stage. So I did a lot of rehab first and my right knee, the inflammation just persisted a little bit. Mid last year I think, just over a year ago, I ended up having a steriod shot in my knee, and I also had I can’t remember what it was, maybe 20ml of fluid drawn out, which is quite exciting. Quite by curiosity, very interesting. Of course, I got a lot more mobility just from having that much less fluid in there. So that really did settle my knee quite a lot. And I was doing really well because I’d been working with a coach doing rehab at that stage, and then I moved towns, and so he wasn’t there. So I wasn’t having that level of specificity with my rehabilitation. And I had an accident last year and I fell off a wharf taking a photo of my dog, I walked off backwards.

Anaya – But what that did is I really injured my adductor muscles, and I know that you did a podcast with Carl recently, and he was talking about how important they are for stabilising the knee. So I really damaged the adductor muscles on both legs and it had a massive impact. And so my knee stabilization capacity really went to custard a little bit. So I was looking for someone else that I could see to get some rehabilitation, and I was really lucky in that my osteopath is also a strength and conditioning coach, and so I’ve been working with him a lot. And, essentially you’ve got this kinetic chain of movement with your knee, you’ve got your feet, your ankles, your knees, your hips, shoulders, neck. So it’s your hips are really super vital as feet, ankles, I guess, in that chain of movement and essentially get issues where at your weakest link. So my knees were my weakest link. And so working with him we basically, you know, I’ve got literally well, that might be an exaggeration, the laziest, but, um, that you can have and because I relearned to walk with a maladaptive pattern, essentially what he’s doing is he’s teaching me to walk again, using my glutes and my hip stabilizers as sort of the prime movers in the movement. Whereas often we use we’re sort of more feet, the feet really sort of start and lead our movement. So he’s doing all these exercises with me, and I do. I feel like a complete baby because I’m really trying hard to engage these muscles. And it’s just taking a while to develop that movement pattern again and get my brain operating that way.

Anaya – I’m doing some very what feels like very basic stuff, but it feels like rocket science to me, it really does. And so that will take a little bit of time but I don’t have any inflammation really in my knees to speak of. I did have a little blip, um, a couple of months ago when I did a few things. Number one, I had a dental treatment, um, combined with overdoing it on 3 or 4 nearly successive days. So my triggers for a little bit more inflammation in my knees. We’re not talking about my CRP going over one still or anything, it’s still really, really low. But for me, it really is overdoing the mechanical stimulus that’s my number one really causes inflammation with me. I’m really strong and resilient on food. I mean, I don’t push it anyway, so I guess I don’t know, but I feel like I am. But it’s really important to know your triggers, think and work with them.

Clint – So the dichotomy here is that exercise gets you the greatest results with your knees. And yet in your instance, if you push it just that little bit too far, it’s your greatest trigger. So it’s about getting to maybe that, um, it’s getting to within maybe 10% of your maximum and then backing off. Right. Would you say that’s fair? Yeah.

Anaya – Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, this is in my nature because I love exercise, I love sport, I love getting outside. So it’s in my nature to go and do a bit much. So the other weekend I went on a walk. It’s funny you have all these experiences, but it’s very easy to forget them and to become complacent when you don’t have any pain or have any issues with moving. You know, like I get up in the morning, there’s nothing to notice. I don’t notice that, you know, like strangulation feeling around my knees that I had for so long or anything. So I don’t it’s very easy to forget about things. And I went for a walk and I was like, oh, yeah, I was halfway round and I’m like, oh, this is a circular walk. And I’ve already gone, you know, I was going up a mountain. I’ve already been going for an hour and it’s been three and a half K, you know, uphill routes. And I was like, yeah, maybe this is a bit much. And it’s like, well I’m halfway. What, what I do. So yeah, I am constantly having to check in with myself because again, that’s, that’s knowing me, knowing how I am, and the kind my tendencies. Um, and I don’t always get it right, I really don’t. But luckily, I’ve got enough wiggle room now to know what I need to do and rest. A rest day or two rest days in a row actually really does work for me at this stage of my recovery.

Clint – Yeah, when you were striving to get to where you are now, though, frequency is important, isn’t it? You were going you were doing exercise every day.

Anaya – Oh yeah, definitely. And I was cycling first thing in the morning, and I was cycling at 4 -00 in the afternoon as well. And in addition to two other, all the other stuff and really, you know, trying to build strength. And at the moment strength is really, really important because you build strength first and then you get the mobility. But at the moment, for me, before I go back to doing the strength stuff, I need to get the coordination stuff. And I haven’t quite got that because I need to be employing my muscles and the sequence that they are most effective and adaptive for the movement and the movement patterns. And at the moment I haven’t quite been doing that. So because my, you know, my long-term goal is I want to be running in the hills again. I want to be running marathons, off-road marathons and doing adventure races. That’s what I want to be doing, that’s what that’s what drives me. And so that’s why I keep going. And in order to do that, I need to have a really good, solid, solid, solid movement patterns and, and really good core strength as well.

Clint – Awesome. Okay. Um, so to summarize, the approach that you’ve used with your knee was to basically start from the absolute worst possible case, double swollen knees and then begin to walk again, begin to backwards cycle, forward cycle, start swimming. And then you went through physical therapy almost through the entire time, where you’re working with a coach to assist you to build strength. And with strength comes range of motion. And so you’ve then been able to get to a point now with one steroid shot out of the two knees, the other one didn’t need it. You’ve been able to get to the point now where both knees are symptom-free, unless you push it a bit too much by, you know, walking multiple multiple miles up and down hills, in which case 1 to 2 days, then resets it to no pain so that you’re waking up with no issues in the morning. It’s an incredible turnaround.

Anaya – Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, it feels like it’s taking a while. I would add that my other goal is to be able to sit on my heels comfortably. Which is quite a contrast to running this far and being able to sit on my bum. Um, yeah. But it’s it’s taken a lot. And I think the other important thing with that is, you know, learning to discern what pain means.

Clint – Yeah, that’s a great insight.

Anaya – Yeah. And recognizing that you’ve got a neural loop for pain because you’ve become hyper-sensitized to it. And one of the things that we can do when we get unwell is we’re constantly scanning for where the pain is, and that essentially makes the brain even more hyper-vigilant towards looking to it. So it’s really trying to move away from that, focus on what’s going well, what’s happening that is great, the improvements that you’ve made. So you’ve got a real health focus, and that’s what I really try to have, is a real health focus rather than an illness focus. And I know all this stuff’s going on, but if I choose to focus on that, that’s my world, that’s what my world exists of. I’d rather have a health focus and focus on progress and improvements and what’s next.

Clint – Yeah. Lovely. Okay. So thank you. For those of you who are wondering, well, where can I start? If you’re already a member with us, then you can find the lower body workout. We have not only the PDF images and descriptions and reps for each of the exercises for your lower body, which are which is centered around reversing inflammation in the knees. But there are also videos that one of our much-loved members, Aljona has put together. She has filmed herself doing each of those exercises for the lower body and the upper body. So these are inside your course materials if you are a member. So thank you, Ananya, for talking about your knees. Let’s talk about how you came off medications, please. First of all, tell us if are you on any at the moment and then talk about which one you were on and how you came off it.

Anaya – Yeah. I’m on no medication whatsoever, no painkillers, no nothing, I don’t need to take anything at all. Yeah. And so originally I was on methotrexate, which I chose to take, uh oh, with the jab because I had some side effects from the pills. So I was on 20mg for a while and then dropped down to 15, I was on that for quite some time. And then once I was functionally doing really, really well and I felt really strong and resilient so I could eat a wide range of foods. Uh, and I felt like the time was sort of right. I thought I would start reducing my medication. I had a plan, my plan was to do it very, very slowly over, around sort of 18 months, actually. Because I don’t want to do it again, I wanted to do it once I wanted to do it right. So probably a really good step with that was actually reading your guide to reducing your medication, where you talk about making sure you’ve got certain things in place. So having your CRP under one for a really significant amount of time, being able to eat widely, ensuring that you’ve got good structures in place and support, ensuring that you’ve got a good daily routine in terms of your exercise, your food, and probably also feeling like you’ve got some space in your life. And that you’re also prepared to potentially have an increase in pain, which mean wasn’t really, to be honest. Like there’s no way I was wanting that at all, but I felt like I could do it successfully and not have any of that. The other thing that I really thought about before I started doing it was I wanted to have a plan in advance that I’d written down if things started to go a little pear shaped, and I wanted to be able to pull out the thing that I’d written a little letter to myself and reminding myself about what works for me, what foods work for me, what exercises work for me, and really reminding myself, excuse me not to panic. Because when we have a little flare or something, sometimes it puts us back into survival mode a little bit and we develop catastrophic thinking, oh, what am I going to do? How long is this going to take? Oh my goodness, this might take months to so on and so forth. And to be fair, my knee did come up, I was a little bit whoa. But anyway, that’s that’s for later. Um, so and the other important thing is actually to really make sure that you aren’t in survival mode because there’s no point dropping your meds if you’re still highly stressed and your body is still in survival mode. And so indicators of survival mode would be constantly worrying, feeling anxious, worrying about the future, worrying about the past, not being fully present. That feeling of your brain being on a like a rat on a wheel. The catastrophic thinking, um, various sensations in your body like restless legs, twitchy eye, symptoms of sort of sympathetic activation. Maybe your heart rate’s a little bit up or blood pressure. Um, and I think, it can take varying amounts of time for us to settle and to be into that kind of restoration and healing mode. You want to really have been in there for quite a while, I think. Yeah.

Clint – So this is all the mindset and conditioning and preparation and then how what were the actual uh actions that you took to reduce the meds.

Anaya – Right. So I started I started alternating 15mg, ten milligrams, 15mg, ten milligrams because I was on the I had the injection, you know, you can only get them in certain amounts here. So in New Zealand you can’t get 12.5. So I did ten, 15, ten, 15, ten. And my idea with that was I was going to do that and for sort of 3 or 4 months. And then if nothing had occurred, then I’ll probably go 15, ten, ten. So 15, ten, ten, 15, ten, ten for a while. And then I dropped it down to ten. And I stuck with that, I think I probably was on that actually for around six months just to, because I think we moved and all sorts of things were going on, so I stuck with that. And then I went ten, ten, 5 or ten, ten, five, five, ten, ten, five, ten, five, ten, five. And then I and obviously the five was not precise because it was a ten-milligram syringe. So I was literally just some out so that I probably would necessarily recommend but I didn’t want to go and get the pills. I was sure I’d probably be okay with them because my stomach and everything is in a lot better shape than it was when I was taking them, so that would probably be definitely the most precise and intelligent course would be to get the 2.5mg methotrexate pills so you can sort of do it that way. Recognizing that they’re not as well absorbed as the injection. So yeah. And then I went down to five and I was going to stay on five again for a few months. And then I was like, nah, I don’t really feel like I need any of this at all, and five is a pretty low dose. So I just stopped taking them, stopped taking it after I’d been on five for about a month.

Clint – As you were tapering, did you notice any changes in your symptoms?

Anaya – None. None whatsoever. Nothing. No, I wasn’t, you know, the other thing I did when I was tapering, which wasn’t again, the cleverest thing is I was actually going working a lot more. Uh. So that was quite a challenge physically and emotionally and all sorts of ways as well. So I did have some sort of, you know, stress stuff happening. So what I did really, in response to the stress stuff was one of the things that really works for me is laughter yoga. So I got on my bike again, and I was doing my laughter yoga because it really sets me up for the day, and I feel really resilient and strong because your brain doesn’t know the difference between fake laughter and real laughter, right? We’ve talked about this before. So you have all those wonderful, feel good cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters dumping into your body and making you feel really, really good. So when I’m feeling like that, I feel a lot more robust and resilient in all ways. So that’s really, really, very, very helpful for me. And it just you know, you just approach life joyfully. So stress is just sort of water off a duck’s back, so definitely had to employ some of my go-to’s for sure. And I think one of the other things with chronic illnesses, when stuff happens, sometimes we feel like our bodies have let us down and we stop trusting them. And so it was really important for me to trust my body and to know that it’s always doing its very best to get back to a healthy, homeostatic state and to really, you know, my job is to back my body. My job is to do everything that I can for it in terms of nutrition and movement and kindness and, you know, positive feedback and reinforcement to help it do its what it really wants to do, what it’s designed to do to the best of its ability. And so yeah, just really trusting it.

Clint – Hmm. Awesome. Well, you’ve. Over the years, I’ve watched you. You’ve always had this very, very, very detailed feedback loop between what you’re observing, what you’re feeling, what you’re expressing, what actions you’re taking. And it’s like your existence as a unit between mind, emotion, and body is very, very dialed in. You you have this constant feedback loop that you’re always really acutely aware of. And you have this very, very advanced observation skill of how you’re feeling, what your body’s responding to. And you’ve had that dialed in since day one. So you’re quick to learn what’s working for you. You’re quick to know what’s not. You’re excellent at manifestation and setting goals for yourself and achieving them through visualization and interventions to affect your mood positively. You’ve got this wonderful package and you know, this I see is a very, very strong asset that you have that not a lot of us have.

Anaya – Yeah. Thank you. I mean, it’s always been interesting to me, the mind-body, spirit connection. And that’s really what my life has been about. It’s been really exploring that and working with that and also this idea that this is maybe not happening to me, but it’s happening for me. And so I want to take the learning out of it. I want to take the lessons out of it and, and, and really embrace that. And yeah, it’s not always fun, but I love learning. So chronic illness is a really good way of learning a lot about yourself. I mean, I’m not signing up for any more chapters in that particular thing, but I am really grateful for what I’ve got out of it for sure. Yeah, and I always believe I can heal, too. I, I really don’t believe this is something that I have to consciously work with for the rest of my life. I believe I can get better from this and have and not be thinking about it at all. And I’m still going to do, you know, keep up my good habits and things. But I believe I can recover fully.

Clint – And that’s crucial because when we do mindset strategies, the sessions inside our coaching, we find that some people have these deep affirmations that they tell themselves subconsciously, like, I deserve this or I’m never going to get better, or this is just how I am now, or my mum had it, so I’m going to have it, and that’s the way it is. Things like this, and we’re all guilty of that. But I share your same level of incessant optimism and in some cases, delusional optimism has been part of my journey in the last 17 years. Like where I’ve woken up and like, I can barely walk, I can’t pull an earplug out of my ear because my elbow doesn’t move enough. And I say to Melissa, oh, it must have been the avocado yesterday. So what I need to do now? And she’s looking at me thinking, you should go to the emergency room. And I’m, I’m in a dialogue about what I’ve discovered enthusiastically. And so, so yeah, it takes it’s your interpretation and a lot of it’s sort of your upbringing and all this. But anyway, wanted to share that observation about that. And I think that really works for you. Now let’s get on to the last portion of this. And that is resilience. So we all strive for resilience in our diet, in our physical activity that’s required and our resilience mentally to problems and setbacks. Can you tell us about how you’ve established this for you?

Anaya – All right. So for me, probably the most helpful thing is to think of resilience like it’s a muscle, right? Muscles only get stronger through use. The more you use them, the stronger they get. And there are lots of different ways of exercising them, and there are lots of different ways of moving them. But every single way that you use makes them ultimately stronger, more flexible, more adaptable, and more able to move and contribute. And so, you know, resilience is not something that you just suddenly have. It’s something that you develop and you grow and you learn really. I think it’s also something that we don’t always give ourselves credit for. So, for example, we might have a whole lot of stuff going on in my life and, you know, saying, I don’t know what to do. I’m not coping. And it’s like, well, you are, you’re here. You’re here, you are coping. You’ve got this far. How did you get this far? And we forget just what resilience looks like, what it sounds like, and what it can feel like. And we only feel the lack of it when we’re really, really super, super, super challenged.

Clint – Can you give us some examples of how you are now more resilient?

Anaya – Oh. Well, um, I think I just don’t worry about the small stuff so much anymore. There’s a whole lot of things that I’ve just put in there really not worth worrying about basket. Chronic illness, of course makes you really have a look at your priorities and get really, really clear on them. And so being really clear on your priorities and your values and engaging with that enables you to be more resilient, because it enables you to make sure that your life is really in alignment with what matters to you. And then all the other stuff that’s not in alignment with that can just really, really fall away. And so, for example, for me, my health and well-being are number one. It guides my decisions about what I say yes to. So I won’t say yes to three days in a row of teaching, for example. It’s just, it’s too much for me. It takes me too long to recover from. It’s not in my best interests, it’s not good for my health and being so. And every now and again, I might say yes. And I’d be like, do. I didn’t really want to do you know, I said yes because I could say yes rather than I want it to say yes. So yeah, just really important to remind yourself what is most important to you and then make sure that the decisions that you make are aligned with that. And yes, every now and again we make a decision that isn’t, and that’s okay. When that happens, you being resilient means that you’re also able to engage. You know, you’re kind and compassionate self that says that’s okay. We all mess up and just be really gentle with yourself.

Clint – I like that insight, that resilience can be making smart choices so that you’re never putting yourself in a position where you are going to be vulnerable to a setback. So your resilience in part, is coming by avoidance of precarious scenarios or potentially problematic scenarios. That’s good. We spoke earlier to help answer this question with you about how you used to wake up and there was tightness in the knee. Now you wake up and there’s no pain in the knees. So in that way, your knees have become much more resilient. So I’m sure that if you, for example, take a misstep as you’re walking along, there’s a pebble or a rock or something and you accidentally step on it. It’s not going to ruin your week. Right. If you do that now.

Anaya – Yeah. Oh, well, I fully cracked off my bike last week. It was a big one and my bike was on top of me and everything, and my husband was there taking photos of me. Right. Whereas a year ago, if that would happen, he would have been racing towards me, taking the bike off, pulling me up. Are you okay? Are you okay? And wrapping me up in cotton wool and making sure I was all right. But no, he was laughing his head off, taking a photo. So that’s resilience. Yeah, right. And the fact that I could laugh about it too. And I wasn’t like, oh my goodness, you know, what have I, what have I done? And that’s resilience. That’s what it looks like. That’s what it can sound like. And you know yeah absolutely what it feels like as well. Getting up in the morning, no pain, no stiffness. And not physical ones are really interesting ones actually, because often the changes you don’t notice them unless you’re paying attention to them. Because when everything’s going really well, it can be very easy not to notice the absence of a symptom. And that’s why I really, really like to write down my small wins, because I’m attending to what’s improved, to what’s good, to what I want more of in my life. Otherwise, it just sort of can, you know, just sort of not even be swept under the carpet because you don’t even know it’s there to sweep it under the carpet, but we just don’t notice it. We don’t notice the good things.

Clint – Love that made a note of that one myself. So fantastic. And then we also develop more resilience through our diet. What we find is that the more diversity that we’re able to tolerate, it’s like we’re teaching our digestive system, how to read more advanced books, and then when the book gets put in front of them and it’s a very difficult book the gut has been able to handle this in the past, and we therefore don’t throw a tantrum, get upset, and create systematic or systemic problems. Likewise, if we’re able to eat a large diversity of foods, it’s more likely that we’re not going to be susceptible to a little bit of oil at a restaurant or some gluten in a soy yogurt or something, thereabouts. So this is how we can become more resilient just continue to advance ourselves in the diet, in the exercise, in our like you said, the environments that we put ourselves in to become smarter and we can live in society like a real human.

Anaya – Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, along with that too, is we hadn’t really spoken about this, but emotional resilience, um, and also the resilience of being a little tired, you know, like, so you don’t have a good night’s sleep. If you’re resilient, you’re like, that’s okay. I had enough rest anyway, my body’s restored, I did a thing, I can still cope with the day that’s okay. And emotional resilience is a really interesting one as well, because of course, when your nervous system is dysregulated and your immune system is dysregulated, there’s a high probability that you’re emotionally dysregulated as well. So your moods will be a little volatile up and down. So when you’re feeling really resilient, you don’t have that level of polarity between the down and the up. You’re able to sort of smooth it out a lot more and really shake off anything bad or not great that happens.

Clint – Yeah. Yeah. Well said.

Anaya – Yeah. And that’s hugely regulating as well because you know they work so intertwined together that’s hugely regulating for your immune system and your nervous system. If you can manage to regulate what’s going on emotionally.

Clint – Yeah. Well thank you. We’ve covered a lot here. I’m very, very happy to get all the details here in one full account rather than just snippets working with you online. So thank you for sharing about your improvements with your knee, which sounds absolutely great. Now, coming off the meds, you’ve been off that for five, nearly six months. No setbacks, no symptom increase when coming off them. You’re pain-free, drug-free, and back to maximum energy, which was the mantra I set for myself way back in about 2008. And I said that every day, like a crazy person with a little jingle, and you’ve done that, which is sensational, and you’ve become more resilient and you’re forever working at your mission. So congratulations. Well done. Keep up the great work. And and thanks for being on this episode.

Anaya – Thank you. Thank you very much. And also thank you for your mantra because I did adopt that and steal that and say it thousands of times as well, thanks a lot.