How to reverse RA symptoms without any medications? Not many people can achieve this, but Roger has been successful at this enormous challenge by aligning his diet, exercise, mindset, and habits with immense determination and commitment. We discuss in this interview:

• How Roger used the strictest version of the Paddison Program to dramatically reduce CRP levels without taking any medications
• Roger’s stressful lifestyle before being diagnosed
• Natural remedies Roger tried, and failed, before settling on the Paddison Program
• His journey of making dietary changes and adopting his exercise routine
• The crucial role of mindset
• Having support from family and friends
• Roger’s gradual and steady improvement and how it lead to complete recovery after three years
• The essential requirement of exercise

Clint – Today’s guest has a mind-blowing reversal story for rheumatoid arthritis. And he actually puts me in a little bit of a funny situation, because I’ve over the last year or two, been advising that if you’re in a really, really highly inflamed state, it’s very, very difficult to reverse inflammatory arthritis without the use of a suitable long term medication. The inflammation in our body, no matter where it is in our joints, can correlate with inflammation in the gut wall, which causes more intestinal permeability, more leaky gut. It is a vicious cycle and this is scientifically supported. So it’s extremely hard to go from a really, really, really high C-reactive protein and then be able to only use natural strategies to get your symptoms under control. However, today’s guest has absolutely done that and it’s going to be awesome to hear about all of the details of how. So I’d like to welcome you, Roger, to today’s interview. How are you going?

Roger – Hi, Clint, I’m good. How are you?

Clint – I’m fabulous and excited to hear all about your journey here. I’ve set a little bit of a platform of what we’re in for and what we’re going to expect. But why don’t you give us just a quick summary of your before and after?

Roger – Okay, to summarize it, I was in a lot of pain. Pretty much every single joint in my body inflamed. I Went to the doctor, he took my CRP levels, and when it wasn’t even at the worst, it was at around 55. So when I went to the doctor a second time, I asked what level would that have gotten to when was that at its peak. The doctor said it would have been probably close to 80. So very, very inflamed, a lot of pain, and couldn’t move a lot of my joints. But after three years of following the Paddison Program, followed it very, very strictly. I went back to that same doctor, and my CRP levels were less than one. The diagnosis was still the same, but I asked for a recommendation on what I should continue doing and the doctor said, whatever you’ve been doing, continue doing that because it’s working. Never took methotrexate, never had to take any biologics, no drugs, just natural remedies. So I’m very grateful and very happy to be here.

Clint – It’s phenomenal. It’s awesome. So we can’t wait to go into more detail here just to satisfy people’s curiosity about your status. You have a South African accent, yet we’re in a US time zone. So just to clarify to folks, you’re from South Africa, but you’re temporarily in the United States. But is it fair to say that everything we’re going to be talking about happened whilst you were in South Africa, correct?

Roger – Yes, that is fair to say. I am temporarily in the USA on secondment to or on behalf of my company. But this whole journey took place in South Africa. And the conclusion of the journey, I want to say the conclusion was last year in November. That’s when I went to the doctor for the second time and got that recommendation.

Clint – Okay, great. So at the time of recording, that’s going back about three months or something like that. Okay, cool. Let’s eliminate some skeptical questions immediately. How bad were your symptoms? I mean, surely you couldn’t have had inflammation in your knees, for example, or I mean, how bad were symptoms at your worst?

Roger – So, I mean, it’s actually interesting that you say that because my inflammation first started in my knees and then transferred to my ankles, toes, fingers, back, neck pretty much everywhere. So I was inflamed in every single joint that I could feel in my body. And it was to the point where I remember just to share a bit, I want to say the most scary part of it was the first time I woke up and I could not move my head for the first 15 minutes because that’s when I just lay there and I thought it’s over. And to go a few months back when I went to my first doctor, she actually said that I would be in a wheelchair in ten years’ time, which was a very sobering thought, it was a lot to process. So when I lost movement initially for that first 15-minute period, I remember just lying in bed and thinking she was right. That’s it for me.

Clint – My gosh. Okay, you’re a young guy. Tell us, how old were you when this started? What did your lifestyle look like? And have you explored possible contributors or associated risk factors like antibiotic use as a teenager for acne, cesarean birth, no breastfeeding, and things like this? Have you played that kind of thought experiment and wondered what caused this? How old were you and what do you think triggered it all?

Roger – It’s a good question, and I think it was really just my lifestyle to summarize it. So I’m a man of extremes and I like to do things at 100% or nothing. So my lifestyle was I was in my final year of university or college, as the US says, and I was living to the extreme. I was going to the gym very hard, I was partying a lot, I was studying hard. Pretty much everything that I did, I was doing at 100% and my diet was not good either. I was eating a lot of fast food, a lot of processed foods. I love my sweets, my candy. Everything that I probably shouldn’t have been eating. And it all just came tumbling down at the end when I was actually writing my final exam. So it was very difficult to complete that final year of university. My marks took a significant dive because even just sitting down and writing exam was very painful because my back had already started swelling. I got my diagnosis at the end of my final year of university, but I started getting symptoms halfway through that final year. So I just remember the final exams that I wrote, I was in immense pain. I had to take some painkillers before writing each exam because sitting there for 2 to 3 hours was just pretty much unbearable.

Clint – Goodness. Yeah. Okay. So you’ve finished university, you’ve got all of these symptoms in your body, You go to see the doctor. She predicts ten years you’ll be in a wheelchair. What did you try before you started the Paddison Program?

Roger – So my family’s never really been one to, I want to say, go the pharmaceutical route or the drug route unless we absolutely have to. So we tried all the natural remedies. And that’s why it’s so interesting, having gone through your program, because we tried natural remedies and they didn’t work until we used a structured approach that was intended to clean the gut. So I was having wheatgrass, barley pills every day. I was I tried veganism as well, but again, it wasn’t the structured approach that I needed. I tried a whole bunch of different things around diets, around exercise, tried cardio, but it was just getting worse and worse. And then my mom actually went online because that was the last resort we were going to go with the methotrexate route. And I wanted to add resigned to the fact that I needed to take these drugs. And my mom said, Wait, there’s still one more thing that we can try. She found this Paddison Program, and there are a lot of people that are saying that it works. And I said, there’s nothing to lose, let’s just go for it. So I followed it to the T. I was absolutely strict, I stopped my I mean, it sounds bad to say drinking, I stopped partying with my friends. I stopped drinking coffee, I adopted your diet to the team and I changed my exercise regimen just to be more based around cardio. And fast forward a year and a half, pretty much all of my symptoms were gone, reversed.

Clint – It’s extraordinary. So other people listening to this say, well, you know what? When you say you followed it to the T, a lot of people know what that means. A lot of people still haven’t started the program yet. But did you emphasize the green juices? Did you do the two day cleanse? Did you stick with only the foods in the baseline period? And if so, for how long? I mean, just before we hit record, you mentioned that you were using a lot of intermittent fasting as well, or maybe that came later. So just talk us through more detail here.

Roger – So I started with the two-week detox and I actually lost 13 kilos during that initial two-week period because I really only had celery and cucumber juice. So that was also tough to go through because, I mean, even my clothes didn’t fit me anymore.

Clint – You went really hardcore cleansing because.

Roger – Very hardcore cleansing.

Clint – Right, Okay. So for folks who aren’t familiar, there’s only a two day official cleanse. But you took it to and to another level, right?

Roger – So we did follow the approach. It’s just that I continued having green juice every single day, but I still followed the full two week process that that you prescribe. And then after that, we introduced one food group every single month, sorry, every single week. And we monitored any reactions, any other adverse effects that it would have had. It was quite a long time ago. So my memory is a little bit fuzzy, but I know that I lost a lot of weight, I was pretty much just bones and I didn’t see much of an improvement for the first three and a half weeks. But when I hit the one month mark, I saw significant improvement. And one joint at a time I just noticed my swelling going down and the pain being relieved.

Clint – Yeah. Now it’s a test of faith and commitment. If you’re in three and a half weeks in and you’re still not seeing much change, but then you hung in there, and then the four week mark, everything changed. Can you just explain your perseverance here and what you told yourself when you weren’t seeing results so quickly, even though you know you were losing weight, maybe that was affecting you mentally? Walk us through that.

Roger – So I think a lot of this does come down to mindset because it was incredibly difficult to drop everything that I had had been doing before. You know, socializing a lot of the gym activities, a lot of the food I was eating, all of that was coffee as well, very difficult to drop. So I just decided that I was going to change my mindset and I was going to separate my thoughts into positive and negative. When it came to my negative thoughts, I would only allow my thoughts to extend one day in advance. I was never allowed to think longer than one day in advance, because then I’ll think about the fact that the doctor said I’ll be in a wheelchair in ten years. Then I think about a lot of things that I really don’t want my life to look like, if that makes sense. And when it came to the positive thoughts, I’d only adopt a long term perspective. So that could be my career, that could be my family, that could be the person that I was dating at the time. But what that did and the effect that it had is that at the end of every single day, because I’d only let my thoughts extend one day, I then conquered the negative, but only had good left to look forward to. So it felt like victories every single evening when I’d done it. So when it came to perseverance, it wasn’t actually that difficult because every single day was like a victory and I was already in it. So I said, Let’s just dedicate myself to it, let’s push through it and keep following the rules.

Clint – Right. Wow. And what about when you, after three and a half weeks end? I mean, that’s a long time to not see progress. Was there a point where you thought, I’m going to give up if I don’t see progress soon?

Roger – Absolutely a lot. That was where my family and support structure came in. They really just pushed me to continue. I think after even three days, I was expecting results, and when I didn’t get them, it was a little bit demotivating, disheartening because I thought I would at least feel a little bit of a pain reduction. But all I was feeling was a lack of energy. I was feeling lethargic. I was just not enjoying myself.

Clint – It’s fascinating. So sorry for the real drill down here. But I need to understand this when I advise others and encourage others. So even after the two, three days or two days of just juices, even just drinking celery and cucumber juice, even after two days of that, you still didn’t see improvements until four weeks.

Roger – And I don’t know why because I feel like I should have. But no, it was only after the three and a half week period.

Clint – No, but this is great. You’ve just basically. This is so good because I don’t see this too often. I don’t see it too often where the two day cleanse doesn’t result in some improvements. But the people who don’t see improvements in the two days, they become very disheartened. And I’m going to now be able to always refer to Roger because he didn’t see improvements, and your transformation is as good as anyone I’ve ever seen. You just stuck with it and push through. A lot of people so discouraged they find that a difficult thing to do. Okay, so you mentioned that you were reducing inflammation in each joint one at a time, you saw it go down. How long did it take to see the symptoms completely go?

Roger – About three years, I would say so. Gradual decrease, gradual improvement. The most drastic improvement was within the first three months. And then after it was just a slow improvement up until one and a half years. Then I didn’t see much of an improvement at all. And then fast forward one year later, then it felt like I was back to normal because I could run again. That was actually my real test. I said, when I can run again, it means that I’ve done a good job and I used to like running quite a lot at athletics back in high school, so it was quite a big deal for the first time to be able to run again.

Clint – Oh, absolutely. And interesting. I call that the asymptotic healing curve where you get a lot of results real quick, but then you can get to a low simmer of inflammation and trying to eliminate that really low simmer can take a very long time. My experience was very similar to yours in terms of the reduction of of symptoms. Okay, what about your weight? So how were you able to gain weight? Was it simply through the reintroduction of foods until you got to the point where you had quite a reasonable calorie intake? And did you also include exercise throughout this whole period?

Roger – I think exercise was absolutely fundamental. So to expand on that, I will walk you through what my day looked like when things were bad. So everything’s in pain. I’d wake up, first thing I’d do is just try to get the neck moving and I’d try to get out of bed, stretch a little bit so that I could drive my car. Luckily, the gym was very close, about 500 meters from my state. Get to the gym at about 5 a.m. every single day before the workday started because I have to be at work at about 7 a.m., 7 -30 a.m., and I would sit in the sauna for 15 minutes and I found that the sauna had made an incredible difference. I also don’t know why, but it did. And then after the sauna I was in a position where I could swim to a certain extent and I used to swim competitively, so I felt like I was actually going back to my roots in some ways. Get in the pool, float around for a little bit, actually quite a long time before I could do basic movements and I just swam, whatever that looked like. It looked horrible, looked like I was drowning probably, but would do that for about 45 minutes, get out and then go back to the sauna and stretch in the sauna until I felt like I was in a reasonable position where I could walk without people knowing that I was struggling with this thing.

Roger – After that head to work, I’d have my packed lunch. My mom very nicely cooked everything for me. I don’t think I would have been able to do it without my parents support and my brothers support. And then I’ll just run through the day at nights. I’d come back and try to stretch a little and reduce my movement throughout the day. But cardio was massive, swimming was massive. And as the months went on, I’ll try and introduce weights, very, very light weights. I went to a biokeneticist at one point who gave me elastic bands also just to try and reduce stress on the joints. And I’ll do a lot of exercise, just slow rehabilitation. I think one thing that this whole program and journey taught me is that it’s important to adopt a long term perspective in anything that you do. So when it came to my rehabilitation, to, you know, cutting back or try and trying to get back the muscle that I lost, I really just took it slow and tried to make gradual improvements over each day.

Clint – I love it exactly what I recommend, which is the hardest thing is to lower the inflammation, and then it’s much easier to put the weight back on later. And we just have to trust the process if we’re thin to begin with or we’re proud of our muscular appearance and we lose some weight, it can be quite upsetting, but we have to trust that the weight can come back on. We just got to do the hard thing first of getting that inflammation down. So. Okay, interesting. And so how is your weight now compared to prior to starting?

Roger – It’s actually back to where it used to be, which is exciting. I’ve actually way less, but I can do everything I used to do, which is fantastic. So I’m swimming, cycling, going for the occasional run hikes, everything. And for me, it’s not really about size, it’s more about lifestyle. Being able to do things that I want to do and not be limited. And it feels like, well, don’t have to take things easy and know that I can’t push the boundaries like I used to. I can still do what I want to do.

Clint – Any supplements this whole time?

Roger – Not one at all. Just vegetables and yeah the Paddison Program.

Clint – No drugs, right? Not one.

Roger – Not one drug. None.

Clint – Okay. Just clarifying here. Okay. Now, what about your diet now? And given that you’ve had this exceptional disruption to your happiness, your lifestyle, your dreams, everything. It all just came crashing down, and then you were in a survival mode. With your time, you’ve focusing on just thinking about the next day, only never projecting your worries. The whole family had to come together as a community to help you get through this nightmare. Now that you’re on the other side of this, what modifications have you made now in your life so that you can prevent it from happening again?

Roger – It’s a good question. So I just try not to revert to how I was living before. I try to make sure that I avoid any processed foods, I fast intermittently. I know you mentioned that earlier. I forgot to expand on that. I do find that intermittent fasting helps a lot and I like to start my day off with a green juice. So throughout that three year period after the first six, the initial first month, six months on your program, I would get this juice called Rugani. And in Rugani it was very cheap in South Africa, so it was fantastic. It had pineapple, spinach, celery, kale, cucumber and moringa. I hope I pronounce that right and I’ll start my day with 750 moles of my rugani juice. And then if I didn’t have the rugani juice, I’ll just make sure I fast until 12 or 1 -00 pm I found it helped a lot. I still haven’t started coffee again. I can have drinks with my friends, so that’s awesome because that’s one thing that was tough to give up. You know, I really enjoy socialising with my friends. I just make sure I don’t push the limits on anything that I do. In terms of diets, I can eat meat again. I do limit it, so I make sure I don’t eat nearly as much as I used to. And I try and make sure that I include vegetables in every single meal that I have.

Clint – Leafy greens. Do you keep a lot of emphasis on?

Roger – Yes, absolutely, where I can. And if I do ever struggle with my inflammation because it does come back and it has come back about two or three times throughout this period where my neck has been really bad or my knees have been really bad. What I will do is your three day remedy, and if I follow that remedy, then after three days I’m usually right back where I was. And I’m good.

Clint – Yeah, Yeah. We call that a reset. So you do a reset again and then you’re back on track.

Roger – I do the reset and then I’m back on track, I’m very grateful for that.

Clint – Yes. Yes. Isn’t it reassuring to know that you can do that should some trouble arise? It’s very, very comforting because the feeling of hopelessness when you don’t have anything to do, when you’ve got a flare, as people call it, or a reaction, it’s very upsetting. So, okay, awesome. Now you so the picture I’m getting now is you’re very physically active. Your your dietary habits are excellent, but you’ve allowed yourself a few little cheats and and there’s no right or wrong with that. That’s just your choice. And you’ve got your fall back safety net of a three day reset if you need it, if something just goes out of whack. But you’ve only needed that three times in a many, many months, which is extraordinary. What do your family think about this whole thing? And do they sort of talk like you’re this amazing case study and share with lots of their friends? Or, I mean, what’s the general vibe?

Roger – They are very happy that that’s I’ve overcome this. They were obviously an integral part of it. So for them, it was just as much their battle as it was my battle because, I mean, I’m sure as a parent, watching your child go through that struggle to walk at such an early age, it’s a very tough thing to do. So they are very proud of it. They don’t distribute the news to everybody. But if they do hear that somebody has got a similar case, then they will be the first person to reach out and say, listen, we can help.

Clint – Yeah, it’s great. Are there any modifications other than what you’ve already covered, that you’ve done that you think if you were coaching someone through this. How would you coach them with your now experience through this? And would you do something with more emphasis than the way it’s laid out or with less?

Roger – Good question. I think mindset would be the biggest recommendation. One thing my dad said, which stuck with me a lot, is probably the toughest thing that you have to do if you get this condition at such a young age is having to come to terms with the fact that you are not invulnerable. Because as youth, it always feels like you are invulnerable, so you come to terms with the fact that you are not invulnerable. Create a plan, stick to it, Do it justice and green juice I love my green juice now I have it every day if I can. Wherever I can detox, I try detox. If I do have a bit of a cheat, then I’d be trying to start the day over the next morning with just lots of green juice. So almost preemptive action wherever you can. If you get benefits, then realize that you’re lucky to have those benefits and preempt anything else with a green juice with a detox. Maybe something vegan.

Clint – Yeah. Yeah. Good, good, good. You can see that you’ve already adopted this mentality of complacency, avoidance.

Roger – I mean, it’s the little things as well. I mean, calling it a condition and not a disease, for example. It comes down to even how you speak to people. Just try and foster that positive outlook and that long term perspective. Know that things will get better even though it doesn’t feel like it’s getting better. That will help a lot.

Clint – Did you use any visualization about your the way your body might move and behave in the future? And did you use any positive affirmations that you actually focused on that you wrote down or anything along these lines in addition to what you’ve covered?

Roger – I actually did quite a lot throughout that three year program, and this is quite a share because I don’t actually tell anybody this. I would sit down with myself when I was feeling a bit fragile and I would write down everything that I thought I was doing wrong. Which can be a little bit tough to do because it involves a lot of introspection. So I’d really dig deep and try and get a complete comprehensive list of everything that I wasn’t happy with in my life. And that was from diet all the way through to how I treated people, my faith, everything. And then I’d write down solutions and I’d say, this is my plan for the next three months. And I’d say date of implementation brought down the dates and I’d say dates of completion, and I’ll pick a date. And then I would do an analysis when that date came and I’d say, Did I resolve the problems in my life? And that was, again, you want to recognize progress. You don’t just want to create a plan. You also want to recognize when you’ve made leaps towards attaining your plan. So after three months, having a bit of a reflection and saying, Listen, I’m doing this really well, I have resolved the problems that I had in my life. That’s really helpful. So during this process, when I was trying to reduce inflammation, a lot of my plan was really just follow the Paddison Program, give up X, Y, z. Be happy with where you are. Be grateful with what you’ve got because you’ve got a job, you’ve got a loving family, you’ve got shelter, you’ve got everything that you actually need. So even if you can’t be for the rest of your life, you’re still gifted in many ways and you need to recognize those gifts before you just dive headfirst into a challenge.

Clint – It’s becoming more and more obvious just how much mindset has played a role for you. I use the phrase treat it as a project, not a problem, and you’ve really run with that. Whether or not you’ve come to that on your own discovery or you’ve seen me talk about that.

Roger – I saw you say that.

Clint – Yeah. So in the exact like you said, well, along those lines, we set goals. We actually work towards, you know, achieving those goals. And then another one of my sayings is massively celebrate wins. And that’s something that I found was really important to is because you’re just surrounded by all consuming problems and worries. And so we want to pay a disproportionate amount of attention to things that are victories and train our brain. That’s what I’m after. That’s what I seek. That’s what we need. More victories, more results like this. And it really is a dance, isn’t it, with our mind to get it to behave like we want it to.

Roger – And that’s one thing that you can say. I mean, if your body is breaking down, you recognize the fact that your mind is not so nurture to and make sure that it’s in the position that you want it to be in so that you can heal your body. It actually speaks to a bigger point, and that’s stress. So the only times in the last three years that I’ve had a type of relapse where it’s really been bad is during times of high stress. And it usually relates to work. So learning how to control that stress, sorry, I don’t know what’s happening with my thyroid, learning how to control that stress, preempt it, knowing you are feeling it, and then just taking a deep breath, sitting back, going outside, reducing your stress, turning it from dysfunctional into functional stress also helps a lot.

Clint – Yeah, That’s good. Yeah. Interesting. So you have to take it seriously. The stress and the taking, like, a lot of people would feel stressed and they wouldn’t actually say, You know what? I feel it coming on. I’m going to actually now go for a walk. I’m going to calm this situation down. But that kind of physical, time consuming intervention you’ve found is appropriate so that you don’t have any of the much more problematic consequences of having a lot of stress. I like that.

Roger – And I’ve also got to tell Clint, so I also don’t know why, but whenever something’s coming on, whenever it feels like I’m retracting, my left middle finger starts first over here and it starts widening. And then when I see a little lump, I’m like, Oh, that’s not good. Let me let me go on a detox. Yeah, I don’t know why, but it’s always the left middle finger that starts.

Clint – Well, maybe that one just took a little damage when you were a child or something, and it was a little bit more vulnerable. My rheumatologist, I think in our first or second meeting, one of the oldest times that I actually met with him said that the inflammation always goes to the most vulnerable location. And if that’s a damaged a damaged joint or one that just a little bit moved less than the others or whatever it might be. And I noticed that for myself a lot too. So that’s going to be your most useful read alarm system that goes off for you.

Roger – And helps a lot.

Clint – Yeah, exactly. Well, this is awesome. And as I said right at the start of this interview, you’ve created a wonderfully welcome problem, which is people are going to say, Yeah, but Roger didn’t have to go on medication and he did it without and I so I therefore want to highlight a few things that you’ve done that aren’t easy, that if people want to spend a few months trying to see if they can avoid meds and they’re really inflamed and they just absolutely want to give it a go, keep in mind that you were extremely compliant, that you were in the first few weeks, clearly in an under caloric intake state. Right? So if you’ve lost a lot of weight in a few weeks, then there is inadequate calorie intake in that environment. So that also contributes tremendously to inflammation reduction and is obviously helpful. And you’ve taken lots of green juices. But what I’m saying is it wasn’t easy. This was extremely, very, very difficult in those early stages, and you’ve done this in an extreme way. You’ve had that family support around you. You have access to a local pool, a sauna, you’ve got swimming experience, which lends itself to to getting into the pool and feeling confident and doing that, even if it’s cold or whatever. And you’ve also got youth on your side determination, education, a lot of things that were helping you put together a mindset plan of success. So you haven’t just accidentally succeeded. This is an absolute comprehensive like rocket launch attempt at this. And if people are really inflamed and they want to try and do this without medications to try and emulate your results, you have to emulate the effort to emulate those kind of results. And that effort was phenomenal. How does it feel to look back and have this chat and think, I did this, how do you feel in terms of self-esteem and so forth and on this?

Roger – I mean, in a way, it mitigates any other achievement that I’ve ever had, if that makes sense, because it was by far the toughest thing I’ve ever gone through. I’ve got a big smile now because, you know, the worst is over. But it was by far the toughest, most taxing year and a half I’ve had. Very, very difficult, but now I just feel proud, I feel grateful. And it doesn’t matter what I have achieved or potentially will achieve. I think this will be the thing that I’m most proud of going forward.

Clint – Yeah, I feel the same way about things related to my health, more so than many other things related to career or anything like that. I think because it’s a complete whole mind body, social, every kind of all in. It’s like you’ve taken every aspect of your life as a set of cards and you’ve said, I’m all in, I’m all in with everything in life to try and make this work. And that’s terrifying.

Roger – It was absolutely very, very terrifying, but well worth it.

Clint – Yeah. I think it was Anthony Robbins who said something along the lines of when you’ve overcome something of enormous scale, that everything thereafter can feel more easier and a little bit more effortless and put into perspective. And I think that’s what is so beneficial, is that when something arises now with work or something comes up with some social little dilemma, you think I can get through that, look what I’ve done. Look at the scale of what I’ve accomplished and having that reference point, that reference point and anchor into your own self awesomeness carries you forever.

Roger – And I can’t emphasize that enough, Clint. I mean, it actually put me in a very good stead, even with my career, which I thought would take a significant knock. I mean, my fingers were even swollen, it was sort of tight. If I carried on what had been able to continue. But even with my career now, whatever hours they told me to work, whatever job they give me, I’m like, That’s fine. I can do it. Yeah. So self-confidence, although you would think that going through something like this would lower your self-confidence significantly. And it did, especially when I lost all of my weight. Getting through it just raised it to a much higher level.

Clint – Yeah. Awesome. Is there anything else you wanted to add before we wrap up?

Roger – Really just an urge to everybody to just be strict give it a go and give it everything you’ve got. Because if it works, you’ll be grateful for years to come.

Clint – Yeah. Wonderful. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing. It’s been absolutely fascinating listening to your journey and and also very full of reflection for myself as to some of the things you went through and how I had many parallels. If you’ve enjoyed this episode with Roger, please give us a five star review on iTunes. Go onto YouTube, subscribe to our YouTube channel, Rheumatoid Solutions, and share this podcast, Inspire other people, help our community, help more people because inflammation and rheumatoid when it’s uncontrolled is a nightmare. And we have so many things that we can do to bring inflammation down. By sharing like Roger has today, what he’s done and being so transparent helps us all to have better lives and to reduce symptoms.

Clint – So thank you so much, Roger. I know that at first there was some hesitation about sharing. I want to say thank you for stepping outside of your comfort zone and sharing. If there’s other people listening who have a story who would like to share about some improvements that you’d made, I’d love to welcome you on to our show because the more we share success stories, the more we focus on success, the more we believe and we can have better lives. So thanks so much, Roger. I’m very grateful.

Roger – And thank you, Clint. I am very grateful for your program because that’s all I have to say. Thank you.