Stephen chose to avoid medications to overcome rheumatoid arthritis symptoms, by following the Paddison Program For Rheumatoid Arthritis: the results are phenomenal.

We discuss in this interview:

  • How Stephen’s RA onset was gradual, but test results didn’t improve despite taking methotrexate
  • Immediate results with the Paddison Program, in about two months tests were significantly better
  • Diet recommendations and general health improvements
  • Intermittent fasting
  • Keeping weight on the Program
  • Calibrating exercise
  • Hanging from bars
  • Being in control of the condition


Clint – Thanks for joining me today on this episode of the Rheumatoid Solutions podcast. I’ve got a guest with me today who will share his improvements with his rheumatoid arthritis. His diagnosis he described as not too bad when he was first given the option of medications and the future, which is typical of RA patients. He decided to go down a natural path and the results have been phenomenal. He’s going to describe that to us and his journey. His name is Stephen and he is a university lecturer from Romania. It’s a pleasure, Stephen, to welcome you to this episode.

Stephen – Thank you, it’s good to be here.

Clint – Now, Stephen, why don’t we start with the way I like to kick this off, which gives us a sort of before and after? In a short version, before we delve into the long version of the story. Start with at your worst, what did symptoms look like for you? And now how do you feel today?

Stephen – Well, when I first discovered it, it was a pain in my fingers and hands. I did some functions, but it wasn’t serious and I kind of ignored it. What shocked me into action was I had done some strain on my elbow in the gym. I had tennis elbow or tendinitis. I suddenly looked in the mirror one day and it was bent. At that point, I went to the doctor and I talked about it. They took some X-rays and some other things, and they prescribed methotrexate. It didn’t seem that bad to me and I wasn’t in pain when I read about the side effects of the methotrexate. I thought, what’s all the fuss about? I don’t think it’s worth it. Also, I’d done some research and I found your program. However, the one thing that bothered me was that the numbers were kind of high. I did the tests and the numbers were a little high. Thus, I did more research and I found your program. At that point, I said, maybe I should do this program just to get the numbers down. The test and blood test, even though I don’t feel so bad. By the way, I ignored all this for about a year, so I let it get worse. Then, I did this and it was dramatic the way the numbers came down. The pain disappeared a little bit from my hands. A little bit of stiffness in my fingers. Otherwise, the pain wasn’t too bad and I was doing pretty well.

Clint – Awesome, you gave me those numbers beforehand. We were able to go through this and get a little bit of a table that you charted for when I’m going to get from you after this call. We’ll overlay it here on the screen so people can see the actual data for themselves. If you’re watching this online, your rheumatoid factor started at 128 and CCP antibodies 500. Now, they haven’t changed throughout this process, which is interesting in itself. However, your inflammatory markers trended in an upward way from initially in August 2023, it was 6.3mg/l CRP that went up to as high as 30mg/L CRP. Then, you started the program in March, and from 30 it dropped down to 2 to 0.6. Then, you describe and I’ll get you to go into the details in a minute. A setback that you had where inflammation jumped back up, but it only went up to 10mg/L before you went more hardcore on the program again and got it back down to 2mg/L. Then, all your data is in milligrams per deciliter. If a discrepancy and people are wondering, hang on, why are the differences on the screen that the Romanian guidelines for C-reactive protein are measured in milligrams per deciliter? You’ve got to add ten to all the numbers to convert it to the US and the Australian-New Zealand standards. When you notice that your symptoms are coming down, how? How quickly did it take once you made lifestyle changes to reduce the numbers?

Stephen – Well, I mean, I had a test from January to March. I got very high in January and then below normal as I read it in March. It came down very fast after doing the initial spartan part of the program.

Clint – The Spartan part. I’ve been interviewing people for this podcast for about eight years. No one’s ever called it the Spartan part. I love it and I like the description, that’s right. From January to March, it’s come down from 30 to 2 and how did that feel in your body?

Stephen – During that time, I felt fine. I thought I was doing fine. I was trying to get my elbows straight again for exercises and I still had the stiffness in my forefingers. I think I may have had a little, but I don’t think there’s much pain in my hands otherwise.

Clint – Right. If people are wondering what program you’re talking about the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid Arthritis. It’s a lifestyle intervention involving diet, exercise, supplements, stress reduction mindset, omega six three ratio, and all sorts of different aspects. Which did you focus on the most?

Stephen – I guess I concentrated on the diet the most. There wasn’t anything else for me I didn’t the supplements were a little hard to find. I was getting pretty good exercise on my own even before that, although I later tried your exercises. What do you recommend? That’s helped a bit, but it was the diet that I had to focus on and that was the most psychologically traumatic.

Clint – What were you eating before you changed your lifestyle?

Stephen – I had to cut out red meat, and I had tried to cut out fat as much as possible, especially the oils and the seed oils. About 20 years ago, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in my late 40s. I discovered at that point that fat is a bad thing and red meat. I cut them out and I’ve had no more trouble. I also had some medical procedures and surgery. However, I’ve had no more recurrence of that. I had a pretty good idea at that point that I began to get inklings of how important diet was, but I didn’t rigorously follow it entirely. I kept eating poultry and fish. At this point, then when I discovered your program, I also discovered McDougall, uh, McDougall’s, uh, John McDougall. Is it his recommendation? I found that hit me that diet is really behind an awful lot more than I realized of our health problems. That’s when I went much more rigorous and started to cut out the fish and the chicken. I was more rigorous, cutting out all processed foods, and anything that might have seed oil on it, especially that kind of spooked me, figuring out how that was. How was that manufactured? Yeah, that was the main thing.

Clint – What did you find to be the hardest part of the dietary process?

Stephen – I have a pretty high metabolism. I’m a thin person and all my life I’ve eaten a lot. Frequently, snacks are big meals. If I go for more than a couple of hours, I get hungry. I’m used to enjoying myself when it comes to food. I’ve already cut out the meat and things being hungry. I found ways around that that was psychological and I’ve never had to diet. I’ve always been thin, but my metabolism does give me an appetite quite a lot. Any kind of physical exertion makes me want to eat, and that was difficult. I’ll tell you one thing that made me kind of psychologically has given me comfort in recent months. I discovered you may know about this Harvard geneticist and I think his name is Sinclair. He’s achieved some notoriety because I don’t think he has any condition or ailment or health problems. He started this six-hour or intermittent fasting, eating everything in a six-hour window getting exercise, and so forth. They show pictures of him in his 50s and he looks younger than he did in his 40s before he started. He looks like he’s in his late 20s and everybody is recommending this. He’s made a big splash on the internet. Psychologically, I found that very heartening because it meant that this diet that I’m being prescribed is not some it’s what we should be doing anyway. It’s what we really should be and I got that a little bit from McDougall’s. It’s not some horrible regime that I have to follow because I have this horrible disease. It’s simply forcing me to do what I should be doing anyway. As far as eating, I found that you and I try to keep the window as small as possible in my diet now.


Clint – Interesting. What range do you try and eat between?

Stephen – Well, first I had trouble just keeping it within a 12-hour range, which you recommended a 7 because I would eat. Then, I have a feeling and I don’t know if this causes it. However, I have this feeling that late-night snacks and I don’t know what’s behind it, but I quite liked having it. It’s because I would work in the evening and I’d get hungry around 10 or 11. I would have some cheese usually and some bread, which here is very good. Then, Romania has very high quality and very good wine. Well, why not have some bread and cheese and a little glass of wine that’ll be fine and that had to be cut out. What I’ve been doing lately, and I think it helps a lot. I don’t eat for several hours after I get up. I try not to and some days I go to nine, some oftentimes I’ll go to 11 or so. I think that helps a lot. Then, I stop eating around 7 -00-7 -30 and I think that helps. Sometimes, I push it further and sometimes I go all day. I try on Sundays to go until dinner time and fast and combine it with religious thinking, which friends of mine have recommended to me. Then, I do that as much as I can. Today, for example, it’s now 11 -30 here and I haven’t eaten anything. It’ll be afternoon by the time we finish, so I suppose so and that isn’t so bad. I can handle that and it’s the afternoon. In the evening, when I’m trying to function it’s a little more difficult. We’re trying to work in the morning, I’m not always so hungry anyway. Before I move about, I find that helps a lot and it’s reducing that window even smaller than what you describe as the minimum.

Clint – It has come up before when some people have struggled for many years to eliminate their joint pain. Then, they’ve found that tightening up that window helps. If it works for somebody, then great and my feeling is if we’re able to keep the window as wide as what I recommend, which is 7 to 7. We can keep our pain at the lowest possible levels by doing so, then awesome. But if people are looking for that little bit extra to take the pain down that last little bit. Then, maybe this could be a strategy for other people to the one that you’ve just shared. How do you maintain your weight? How do you eat enough in the window so that you can maintain your muscles and also have enough energy to work out?

Stephen – That’s a good question because I think I am a bit underweight by the standard standards. What do I do? I try to eat a fair amount of protein and permitted fat. Sometimes when my wife’s away, I bend the rules a little bit with a small amount of olive oil. I’ve always liked nuts and I try to eat, and those help and that’s it.

Clint – I love it, and I eat a lot of nuts as well. I have that wider window than you do. I still include nuts in there, and I’m very happy with my body weight. I don’t have any weight that I want to lose, but I carry just a little bit of belly fat. Then, it is only there because I certainly eat enough, if not more calories than I need. I work out hard so the nuts are such a key reintroduction. Once you can reintroduce nuts into your diet if you go through this sequence. I love pistachio nuts, not just as a filler food for fat and energy levels, but as a healing strategy. I believe that everyone should eventually get into pistachios eaten regularly. Then the almonds and cashews are a close second. Are you eating those nuts?

Stephen – Almonds certainly some pistachios, perhaps not as much as I should. Also, some cashews and walnuts. I know what you said about Brazil nuts and I love Brazil nuts. I was heartened by what you said. Although, when you got to the end and said, I’m allowed two Brazil nuts a day. I was a little depressed by that, but otherwise, I’m good.

Clint – If you want to go crazy on nuts, then make it the pistachios and your whole world of rainbows will come at once. That’s awesome. If you’re listening or watching this, I encourage you to go through this sequence, this particular step-by-step sequence of our reintroduction process. Do not stop at Group B, where there are lots of beans, legumes, rice, potatoes, tofu, corn, and all sorts of wonderful things that you can eat. Don’t stop there, migrate into the nuts and seeds. It’s because if you want to really have a complete and unrestricted life in terms of a plant-based diet, head into that area as well. How’s the elbow today? How are the hands today compared to before you started?

Stephen – The elbow is almost completely pain-free and there is migration around. I know you talked about that there when the elbows stop. I should mention I’ve had a little bit from time to time. I have a little pain in my feet and my toes. I cut out some of the tip-toe exercises standing on my tip toes in bare feet, which you said not to do. I cut that out and that’s more or less better. I don’t have so much problem with that. I also have a little problem from time to time with itchy skin. Now, I don’t know how much that’s connected with this condition, but it seems to have coincided with it. I should have mentioned that comes and goes, especially in the cold weather. Sometimes, I can go months without that and then it’ll flare up a little bit for a few days. Then, you asked how the hands are and that’s the only stubborn thing right now is this hand. Over the day, it doesn’t hurt at all and this wrist a little bit, too. Now, over the day and even at night, sometimes a little pain in the morning. By the afternoon, it’s completely gone, and I feel fine. The only thing is when I try to do some exercises. The exercises I do and I think this came from someone else. This can be a little painful from time to time. It’s not now, but it was this morning when I tried. When I started, this was painful, and the hand flexed. I don’t know, 4 or 5 a day or not as many as you say, but I think the hand flex. They start limbering things up, and they make the pain go away. There’s this one you said and I think you said to do just kind of like this. I think and this is the way I understood the instructions, which doesn’t hurt. But if I go like this first thing in the morning on this hand, it does hurt. In the day, it doesn’t bother me, but it still bothers me that certain exercises will cause pain on the time. It’s a little stubborn at the moment and I don’t know quite why but following the regime.

Clint – It’s the sort of knuckle on the pinky finger is the one?

Stephen – It’s the back of the hand and you’ll see I have a little bit of a nodule here. It appeared at the time of the flare-up in July and that happened all that appeared in July.

Clint – That’s a very unusual location. I’m going to have to think about that one, Stephen. I’ve never seen it there before.

Stephen – Well, the doctor said it was. It might be the word she used mechanical rather than synovial, or I think that is what she said. In other words, she implied that it might be from something else rather than from arthritis.

Clint – Yeah, with a rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis with very elevated rheumatoid factor and CCP antibodies that does not get misdiagnosed. There’s no doubt you’ve got the RA going on. I’m just questioning that particular issue. We know that when we’re running high levels of inflammation. We’re more vulnerable to all sorts of various manifestations in the body. I agree with the doctor and I don’t necessarily think that that’s synovitis. I haven’t seen pain there like that ever before. I’ve seen a lot of different joint problems over the years and that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist for other people. I’m just saying that particular one is very uncommon. On the fly, I don’t have anything particularly, unique that I could suggest. However, I would explore trying to stretch the area. Some joints are very small at the connective point where the back of those fingers with the fingers come and connect into the base of the hand. If this is what’s going on, I’d be looking at trying to distract them. Thus, try how you can create space in those joints. If you’re successful in identifying how to create that space, then I would load under resistance that particular expression. For example, if you find that bending the wrist forward just gently, you’re able to create some space here across at the top of the back of the hand. Then I would think, how can I repeat that exercise with maybe a band where I would pull down and try and build strength whilst distracting? That combination is sweet and that’s what we do for the wrists. That’s what we do for the elbows and shoulders. Thus, building strength under distraction. I would like to have you explore that and maybe let me know in a month or so or earlier. Just send me an email and let me know whether or not that’s been helpful because I’m always learning too. I’ve not seen that particular error before.

Stephen – I thought of doing these painful exercises. If I do them, then they’re not painful anymore. If I do this or If I did this, then the pain goes away.


Clint – Can you do this one for me? Can you bend the wrist very forward? Now, just hold it forward and I want you to continue to do that just for 20-30s twice a day. Then, see how that particular problem area presents in the coming days. If you just do that and encourage it a little further down. If there’s a little bit of a feeling of strain in the top of that hand, I would feel good about that. I would think we might be on to something.

Stephen – Okay, this is not painful in the least.

Clint – Awesome, explore it.

Stephen – Now, another thing I did, because if there’s a slight pain here. I discovered here only recently your suggestion of doing pulling exercises. I wasn’t sure if I could still do those, but I found that from a therapist and that’s okay. For a different reason, I’ve been doing that and I’ve been doing more. What do you call them? Rows and pull-downs? I’ve stopped doing push-ups because you said pushing on the wrist is not so good. I stopped the push-ups, but I started the pulling, and I can’t tell. So far, I’ve just started and it doesn’t hurt or it doesn’t make it any worse. I also have osteoarthritis a little bit in my neck. Just a couple of months ago I thought, this is rheumatoid arthritis and I don’t want to lose the function of my neck. However, it turns out it’s not and it’s the other kind of arthritis. I’ve done some exercise therapy for that and it’s much better. I notice it at all and that one is just caused by age. It was something you expected in your late 60s to kind of get that. It restricts the exercises I can do a little bit, but the pulling is okay.

Clint – Often, it’s the scale of the amount of stuff that we’re doing that is our biggest opportunity. Then, not the actual that we’re missing anything except just the scale. Then, what I mean by that is, once you have decided you can repeat each day what feels good for you. Then, we just increase the load more and there’s no limit to the amount of strength that I expect from people that I work with. In terms of wrist resilience, grip strength, elbow strength, and shoulder strength. I want everyone hanging from bars for 30s. The people with the worst wrists, this is for you and this is what I’m expecting. We just go there very slowly and we head towards that very gradually. We start with the pull rows and the pull downs exactly what you’re doing and load them more. If you can do 15 to 20, it’s too light. We want to increase the resistance so that you’re struggling on your second set to do 12. Okay. Then, we’re in the business. Then, you’re building muscle building strength, tendons, and strength around the wrist. Grip strength has to improve to hold on to that bar as you’re lifting down, pulling down or pulling towards you some serious weight. Your whole body develops more muscle mass and the joint pain goes down.

Clint – Then, we have graduated to being able to get under a bar and take some of our body weight. Then, select the grip that feels best for the wrist, whether it be underhand, overhand, or neutral grip. Then, we take more and more body weight. Then, we return to this beautiful, exquisite expression of the human body that most of us have lost, which is just to hang from something above us. In the same way our primate cousins with such similar DNA composition as we do daily, effortlessly, and we can do this from two years old. I’ve had all my kids, two years old, hanging from bars and it’s trivial for them. Then, as we get older, we’re like, that seems like a big deal. It’s only in the mind and the body knows how to do it and does it easily. We need to get back to that. I love that you’re doing the pulling and I love you doing the pull-downs. Let’s keep this direction going.

Stephen – Well, I’m very encouraged and grateful to you for this program. It really has worked and I’m amazed. I’ve recommended it to my wife and she doesn’t have RA, but she has some autoimmune issues which have has improved dramatically. I don’t know if it’s entirely because of the program. I looked at this in some ways I did when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. As far as my diet and exercise, it’s making me do things that I should do anyway. A lot of people who have prostate cancer say prostate cancer is the best thing that ever happened to me. It forces them to do what they should do anyway and possibly saves them from cancer and worse diseases. I look at this as a wake-up call, something that I take it as a warning to improve my lifestyle and do what I should have done a long time ago.

Clint – What are some of your exciting future ambitions or projects or holidays or things that you’re looking forward to now that you have confidence in your health?

Stephen – Well, I like to walk on a daily basis and I do a lot of that. I like to go to the country and walk in the country. My wife and I are building a house in the country, so I’m looking forward to that. I certainly don’t want to be immobile and I love being there. Well, here in the city where we live, in the center of the town, I also like to walk and I’m very keen on that. It gives me a lot of pleasure and it helps me to think of things I haven’t thought of before. Thus, that’s a lot of it. We travel a fair amount. I travel for work and I like to travel. I spend a few days having a little miniature holiday as well in France. Also, with places like France and Poland, and that’s it. My needs and ambitions are simple. I guard them as jealously, as fiercely as I can.

Clint – What about if someone’s watched this and they think, wow, I wish I could feel better. What would you say to them? We’ve talked about the program, but let’s talk about something a little bit more mindset or a little bit of an insight about the way to approach this disease that perhaps you’ve developed that you wish you’d have known before.

Stephen – Well, don’t deny or postpone it. I was diagnosed for about a year. No, I wasn’t diagnosed but I had the symptoms for about a year. Before I got a diagnosis, I think I had a test or an X-ray. The X-ray technician said this is probably not rheumatoid arthritis. It’s probably the other kind of osteoarthritis, which is kind of inevitable at my age, a little bit. I didn’t do anything again for about a year. I thought it was just osteoarthritis and I don’t think it got a whole lot worse, but it did a bit. I think it might have been better if I started early. If you think you have something wrong, look out for it. I think you find out what it is. I think a lot of men especially, feel like they’ve got to tough it out. Rather than going to the doctor for every little ailment. I think when you get to be 65, which I was at that point, I think you shouldn’t jettison that philosophy and just see things right away.

Clint – What did your rheumatologist say, the one who gave you original prescriptions for Methotrexate? Correct me if I’m wrong and left something out there. What have been your latest guidelines from your rheumatologist?

Stephen – Yeah, that’s a good question. The first rheumatologist I went to immediately prescribed Methotrexate. I guess I had already looked into it a little at that point. I knew what the side effects were and it felt like a very like she was doing it in a very kind of robotic automatic way. At the time of the Covid, it was becoming like a lot of people were skeptical about the medical profession. Generally, I was determined not to do this or not to take these medications unless I had to and the pain wasn’t that bad. After following the program, I saw another or different rheumatologist who had also recommended Methotrexate early on. This time she was much more sympathetic and I followed this diet program, which neither one of them had ever heard of. I was quite shocked about this. The idea that you could control this through diet seems like a completely foreign concept to them. I was just shocked by this and the second one was more sympathetic. I even asked her at one point, shall I take the methotrexate because of this persistent problem? She said, I’ll give you a prescription for a reduced dose. I think it was 10 milligrams instead of 15 miligrams, which I guess is already very low. I don’t think at this point, it’s necessary. Then she said, you’ve got the disease and the numbers show that you have the active disease here. However, the x rays are not that bad as I remember she said. She said she went along with it and I’ve stayed off it entirely. Now, that was one time when I had that pain in July. I did go to a doctor, a different doctor, and I got a temporary painkiller. I took a painkiller for one night, and it killed the pain for a couple of days. I felt better and I didn’t try to do that often, but I thought that was better than the undergoing the side effects, which alarmed me a bit. Now, I’m determined to follow the exercise. I should do the probiotics and the supplements as well. I should get more aggressive, but nevertheless, I’m determined to do that and stay off medications, which is possible.

Clint – If we don’t do the meds, we have to do everything else perfectly. It is because it’s such a Godzilla of diseases that we don’t have much wriggle room for error. If we’re not taking meds, it gets easier. For example, for me, I had pancakes the other day for breakfast. My kids, when they have birthday parties or birthdays, I should say we have vegan chocolate cake. I eat that and I have like a soda once every couple of months. A sip of a soda from one of the kids or something and nothing happens. We eat out at restaurants and I have bean burritos and shiitake mushroom burritos. Then, I eat at Indian restaurants and nothing happens. However, I do not go and eat at KFC or a fast food chain or something that’s got deep fried in industry-grade oils. Oils that are reheated over again because I’m not that robust. How far can we get? Well, I’d want you to get rid of absolutely, completely get rid of those symptoms that you have remaining, and that should be the objective. I won’t stop until you get there. However, if you continue to do what you’re doing and exhibit this sense of control over your condition the way that you’ve established. Then, I see you hitting all of your goals with this and maybe even more so and it’s very exciting. How much do you appreciate the significance of the bullet that you’ve dodged compared to the typical pathway that most people go down?

Stephen – I was blessed with a very mild version of the disease. I think I’m told that this happens when you grow older. I didn’t come into my 50s and I’ve been blessed with that. I’ve had a good life so far. It’s a sacrifice or minor sacrifice and it’s requiring me to do something I should be doing anyway at my age or any age. I’m grateful for that and I feel sorry for myself, and I hope for people who are, struggling more than I am.

Clint – Lovely words. A great way to end this here with our chat. Is there anything we’ve left out? Do you feel that we’ve overlooked something or skipped something that you’ve been wanting to share?

Stephen – No, I think we covered it more or less. As I said, I’m grateful to you for devoting yourself to this program, and I’m sure you’ve won. It’s clear that you’ve helped a lot of people, and it helped me as well. God bless you.

Clint – Thank you, Stephen. I appreciate it very much and keep up the amazing work. Thanks for sharing your story today on this episode. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, head over to www.rheumatoidsolutions.com, where you can see the transcription. Also, you can watch the video of course, or listen to the podcast as you may have been doing, and we also upload this to YouTube. Thanks very much and we’ll see you in the next episode. Thanks again to Stephen for sharing today his wonderful transformation with his rheumatoid arthritis. Also, the avoidance of methotrexate, and bringing his C-reactive protein down from a high of 30mg/L down to currently 2mg/L. Thanks for listening.

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